Bloomberg Green at COP26 evening 1 Live Q&A for the Virtual Audience - Day 1 Transcript
Thank you so much for being here with us and for sharing your film - the BURNING of Austrial. It was really remarkable
to get to see it. I want to start by asking you how things have changed in the time period
since you completed the movie, I mean for one thing you're getting to show it outside of a
cop. I know at this cop Australia, unlike in the movie has a pavilion. We reported on the fact
that Australia put out a net zero. Plan ahead of this cup without very much detail. Scott
Morrison is still Prime. Mister.
What wood is changed after 1/5 of the forest land in Australia burned?
I knew that coming up to cough. They were going to be some announcements and I think he
resisted committing to Net Zero 2050 until the last possible. Second. It was very very
recently and very reluctantly, but also was done without any plan. It was just a blanket
statement and I think we can all agree having seen a little history and some of his politics.
He's very good at saying things and not following through or saying things that don't make
much sense. So basically we commuted, I actually live in America now, but yeah, I
understating and weave. And committed to Nazareth.
Without any solid plan budget legislation to get there and the targets for 2030, have not
changed and their voice. And that's, I think we can. All agree are more important than the
2050 targets. Because since the UN report came out recently. I think we've all realized when
Dire Straits than we thought. Yeah, so that's one thing, and the other sort of almost comical
thing. Was that Scott Morrison said, he wasn't gonna come to Cops a long time. He blamed
quarantine and covid of a long time. And on my belief is that he was shaded by the queen.
Very soon after she did that. Yeah.
Me to cop. So it's it's pretty griemann and Australia's on to perform terribly a cop. We were
a signatory to the methane agreement to the call agreement. I'm you know, it's pretty sling.
Well. Yeah. Well, I want to I want to
Oh, I'm sorry. It's working though, right? Is that better? Okay. Sorry about that. What is it?
Just a quick summary. I'll say that I think one of the scientists character in your film describe
it as sleepwalking into a catastrophe. And that's the train. I thought it was my microphone.
It feels like we're you know your sense after completing this film? Is that that's still? The
prevailing sensibilities. I yeah, do I needed or
That better. No. Yes. Hello. Okay, so still still sleep walking into a catastrophe. I guess is the
recap. Yeah, we have a little more of a PSP and I would say, you know, by a financing
something like NetZero 2050 but having no for solid plans to make to materialize them.
Well, so I want to ask you more questions about the making of the film. But before I do that,
I want to say, I think we've handed out QR codes or people to scan, and if you don't have a
QR code, you can use your phone and go to be Green Dot Live /. Ask. And that's the way you
can put questions in that will appear on this screen here. And I can ask them to evolve about
about the movie.
Thing else that you want to ask. So let's let's talk about the making of the film. So when in
the black Summer of the Australian firefighters did you decide that you were going to make
a documentary about it? So I was leaving. I live in LA and I was watching it unfold from a
distance and I think it was August 2019. I saw the first thing on probably CNN or something
saying the fires had started in Australia. And as Greg Mullen says in the film, you know, fires
happen in Australia, where a fire prone country, but this was something different and
Remember the times being like, Oh, it's August. It's not even spring. It's actually winter
when the fires were started.
Which is unprecedented and Incredibly early. So, I was on my radar and in October I saw
again from La Sidney was completely covered in Smoke, which I'd never seen in my lifetime,
and by chance I was going home. As I do my summers in Australia to visit family. So I arrived
back in December and I was there December January. So I was there through the brunt of it
and it was, it was just unbelievable. I mean, the whole I felt like the whole country is
burning, everyone was impacted a lot of friends. As and family.
Lost times and just our public radio ABC. We were driving around a lot and we listen to it all
the time. When we drive and it was like an emergency radio station. It was just constantly
about evacuations and fires. It was that was shocking but I think the thing that really threw
me over the edge was on December 27, in Melbourne, my hometown where I lived for 34
years. It was 47 degrees Celsius, and I lived there for 34 years and it never got above 44
degrees, which was Generally one week in February and late summer. So this Early summer
and you know anecdotally, that's a 3 degree temperature, increase in my lifetime, and that's
not the science. It's one and a half degrees that we've increased temperature. But in what is
Ground Zero for climate change, the temperature has actually increased three degrees in
my hometown and everyone was kind of walking around in that Australian kind of laconic.
Relax. We're going. Yeah, it's really hard and I was kind of like guys it's like Baghdad. What is
happening here? So that was one of the moments that really affected me. And then you
know, being In Sydney, in January, and the whole city was in.
Again, so I think by the time, you know, we got on the plane to go home to La, I was kind of
like, I think, I think there's a film here, but I thought I was thought from the beginning. It
shouldn't just be stories about fires and victims. It needed to be about climate change, and
it needed to be all encompassing that. Now, there was a review of your film in the guardian.
And I think, when we spoke previously you said that there's been some other films about
the fires that actually didn't mention climate change very much. Is that? Is that, right? Yeah,
and I'm not wondering at all to Sighs. I think a lot of the five films are very strong and they
are very much about victims, but they do tend to
Maybe in the third act, someone kind of goes around climate change and that. And I kind of
get to the end of those films. And I was really frustrated because I don't think you can tell
the story of fire or, or anything. That's a result of climate change without talking about the
cause and what we need to do. And I know why people stay away from it because it's a
challenging subject and, you know, my editors would tell you, if they were here that they
want to kill me when I came back with all this footage and said, yeah, it's like an essay stick
film about the last 30 years and it's really hard to put together. And make compelling. But I
just thought, you couldn't just tell a story about the fires. It's irresponsible.
Well, I want to talk about some of that imagery because, you know, the team that I work
with climate journalists and editors, you know, we see a lot of the, you know, very difficult,
images surrounding climate impacts, the ones in your film are remarkable and, you know,
really hard to erase from your mind. After you see them. They really stay with you, are
those? I mean, we've all seen the kind of orange Sun blocked out by a smoke. We've all seen
very devastating pictures of wildfires, but some of the footage that you found of animals
experiencing the fire and the way that people are You know, trying to flee from the fire on
the ground for those familiar images to Australians in the aftermath of the fire or where
these kind of unprecedented.
Scene. Looks at what it's like, it's a combination. And again, a film.
Like, this is really heavily archive based because it's told in the past and I wasn't at the
event. So I think probably 70% of the film is actually archive, despite. We shot a lot.
Obviously, it's some of it has been seen before some of it hasn't, you know, we have like at
an amazing team. I have an amazing archive producer who you know hunts things down.
But also everyone that you meet, you know along the Journey of making the film you say do
you have footage, you know, anyone who took footage Do you know, do you have anything
on your phone? And so it's this endless?
The Holy Grail of footage, but it's funny because some of the footage has been seen before
but not the contextualized like this and so it's amazing what you can do to make footage
seem different the way it's edited and also where it comes in a story and also music. But we
did try not to be. I mean, II know it's horrifying but we actually pulled back, you know, I
think there was there was actually a bit of editorial pressure to sort of put more animals in
and, you know, I was like, you just need to see this. This section. That is all, that is enough.
You Can't, you know, completely?
Push it down people's throats. You have to be, you know, somewhat subtle about it, but
there's nothing subtle about seeing, you know, a koala crying, which is probably, you know,
the most horrific image in the film and that koala did not make it Louis the koala. Well, I
mean it really, it gives you the respective like you're in the fire which I'm grateful for
because I hope to never have to experience it. But I do feel like I got to borrow from the
people's experience in the film. And one of the questions asked, by the audience, is about
the communities. Who survived the fire that you spoke. Spoke to and we see Scott Morris
interacting with two words. Did they build back differently of people just remained in those
communities that you focused on.
And I forgot I think some people have moved a lot of people stay. You know, that one of the
we did interview someone that but it didn't, you know, there's always amazing footage that
ends up on The Cutting Room floor. And one of the people, we talked to with someone
who's building new housing, that's fire-resistant housing and actually in kabah go. They
were building a number of houses like that and they're actually really affordable, really cool
and fire resistant, and that's the future. But, you know, there's not like a lot of government
subsidies going into that. Obviously. There's not a lot of thought, it's just One, its kind of one
His own and it's the same with him housing, which is something I didn't know about which is
becoming a thing as well, because hymns fire resistant as well. So you would think all new
construction in Australia, particularly in the country, you know, would have these new
building codes and standards and there's definitely a lot of talk, but I don't know really that
that much has happened. Another audience question that I also had wanted asking myself is
by somebody who's from British Columbia, which is a highly prone to fires, you happen to
live into fire zones. With pure Australian Origins and living in La. Now,
You found that there's a different culture or awareness around Wildfire risk in the different
communities that you live in what sort of similar or different about the California. Vs.
Australia Wildfire approach.
It's sort of California's very strange. I mean, Australia is a country of drought. We grew up
with drought, you know, we grew up with water restrictions, when you have water
restrictions, if you break them, you get find, you know, and if you see your neighbor
breaking them, you call someone. Like, it's really, it's serious. And in La, I live already lived
through massive droughts and everyone's Gardens. Look fantastic and nobody cares in the
water restrictions are sort of irrelevant. So it's very different way of dealing with things like
water and climate. I don't No, I feel like in California.
I don't feel like very much has changed. I feel like we're all buying, you know, air purifiers for
our house to use in summer because it's inevitably going to be Smoky. I mean, I know about
a handful people who lost their houses in the last couple of years, but I don't see a lot of I
don't know, it feels different to me. I'm sure if you talked to Firefighters here though, they
would have a lot to say because they seem to be working more and more and one of the
really awful stories that Greg Mullins his wonderful. Fire. Commissioner in the film, told me
he To take teams over to California and vice versa a lot, too. Because our seasons are
opposite because of the hemispheres and he said they can't do that anymore because the
fire seasons have extended so much. Well, straighter in California, that they overlap, you
can't do that anymore. And to me that was one of the more shocking stories that I heard.
Now, great minds is a very memorable character from your film. Another question from the
audience is about the youth activist Daisy. I found one of the things she says in the film a
couple times about how condescending she He finds people telling her that she's the Hope
or she gives people hope question from the audience is about her.
Concern about having children and not being able to safeguard their future. I guess. You
know, what do you make of the, that kind of view from the, you know, very compelling
youth activist. You kind of is like, one of the central characters in your film. Yeah. I fell in
love with Daisy before I met her, and I always refer to her as Australia's gratitude bag and
she's uniquely Australian. And she's funny and joyful, and she's actually studying at
University now and she'll probably end up doing something pretty amazing. And as she and
Greg and a few other people were just at the Australian premiere on Friday night in Sydney.
Which is great. And Greg introduce the film. I mean, I don't have children. So it's really
interesting that I make these kind of films, you know, because what if I got another, I don't
know 20 or 30 years left. So why am I caring so much about what happens in the future?
And what ways astonishes me is that politicians? All have children and grandchildren and
don't seem to, you know, give a sheer to sorry. I swear. I'm Australian that but I know I
completely think days. She is really smart speaking, like, But how heartbreaking is it seeing
as at the time, she was 17 a 17 year old saying, I'm not sure if I should have children. That's
what she's thinking about at this point, because of what we've done. And I completely
understand and agree with her point about, you know, please don't say you give me hope
I mean, they're going to have that generation is going to have to solve this. Ultimately. Look,
it looks like we're not going to do a very good job and they're going to have to live through it
as are their children. So I think she's right, and when she says, I'm not angry. I always in my
head say you should be angry. I'm angry. So I think she's quite extraordinary that but also
think about the trauma that a 16 year old has his. Now 19 at college and she spent her last
couple of years at school, doing what she did instead of, as she said, just having like, an
existential crisis or, you know, worrying about Out.
Grades and boys or girls or whatever. So it's a lot of pressure to put on the kids and I find
that pretty heartbreaking being here at cop. I keep thinking about the idea of going to buy
blue jeans to go to the prior cop. Well, the Wildfire smoke, you know, that's like not a teen
experience. That one should have, there's a sort of off-screen character in the film, but with
all the sky clips, and I wanted to ask you about the Murdoch media. There's recently there's
been moved by the Murdoch media to get into climate journalism. Is that something that
you've seen? Being in terms of the way that the, you know, that part of Australian media is
reporting on climate change.
I mean, clearly, I mean, I'm sure none of us are a fan of Sky, which is Murdock, which is the
biggest source of news in Australia and I live in America. So, you know, I've watched the
damage that foxes wreak all over the country in the world. I mean, you know, a cup. When
was it a couple of months ago the Murdoch, press came out with this really cynical
announcement saying, they were reverting their stance on climate change and they were
going to start admitting to climate change and what?
Kind of killed me. Was that everyone reported? It was in the New York Times. It was all over,
you know, it was all over the Press globally and then it to my knowledge, they did nothing.
So it was just you know, smokes and mirrors. And and also if you're going to do a hundred
and eighty on the opinions and the News, you've been putting out that's false for the last
however long, then you need a rationale and you need an apology and you need an
explanation and nobody asked them for that. And I thought, well, that's interesting. Testing.
So you can just come out one day and say or today, we're going to be That anyone will
believe you and then they've done nothing to follow up with that. I mean, I think they
should be Held Responsible for so much this happened and during the fires that were
putting out news, that was, you know, going out globally, that defies record spy arsonists.
And when they retracted it, it didn't matter. Because we all know retractions are later and
you know, small print and the damage was done. You still hear people say they're arsonists
in Australia, which is just completely fact free. Now, at the end of the film Greg Mullins. I
think the firefighter talks about, you know, leaving deniers behind. And you know, you're
showing this with this one's going to be on Amazon. So it's going to be available to a very
Audience, but you're showing this film here at cop where presumably everyone in this room
is taking the issue. Very seriously is your expectation that this is a film that people who are
in doubt or skeptical will see and it will change their mind, or do you feel like that's a
difficult, ask for a film to do? Yeah, to lot of political films and often people say, you know,
what do you want to achieve with this film? And, you know, you're preaching to the
converted and I agree that a lot of people that are going to watch this going to be liberal on
this subject. But I always say, you know, there's like 40 percent here and 40% here. And
there's 20% in the
And you get those 20% in the middle, you know, you're winning. So that's kind of I guess
who my dream is to see this film, you know, people who are confused or not sure or don't
know enough about it. So that's kind of one thing. And I think the other thing that I really
would like audiences to Come Away with his being so concerned that finally, they put
climate change as a number one reason, when they vote as opposed to the economy or
whatever else drives them.
Because we've got our Australia, has an election coming up, probably in the next six months.
And you know, I have a horrible sinking feeling that Scott Morrison will get in again and you
know, you make your bed, you lie in it, but there's got to be a point where enough people
care and are so concerned that they vote.
Better. Now. I know this is your first climate film but a lot of your films will do with very
heavy subjects. I'm wondering if there were any climate documentaries or just films in
general, that you sought inspiration from when you were making this documentary. It's a
good question. I guess anything that's heavily on the kind of based you. Do you start when
you're making a heavily heavy archive film, you just watched archive films a lot. So I things I
don't know things that I love that have completely off topic, you know, Center and Amy,
which 100% archive and I mean, I think, you know, have this.
Funny anecdote from Al Gore's film An Inconvenient Truth, all those years ago when it came
out and I went back and watched that again, but I people say, you know, how do you get
people to watch films about climate change and my answer or about refugees or about any
tough subject which I tend to deal with and I was there will you make a good film. That's a
compelling story and then people will see it. And I remember really well the year that An
Inconvenient Truth came out, we missed it at Sundance and I was working with Alex Gibney
and New York and shortly after Sundance. He Want to come see that Al Gore slideshow?
Maybe that was you know, a huge hit at Sundance and I went. Yeah, I mean, it sounds
terrible. He wants to see an hour ago. Maybe you know, about a slideshow. I said, oh, you
know, it's bad Angel take a nap and we went to see it and it was fantastic and it was
amazing. And I guess that was the last time I probably said something that terrible and
facetious about a film that, you know, you can make anything compelling. It's all in the
storytelling, you know, you can make any story riveting and so, I think, you know, people
always used to say You can't make a film with a TV show about advertising and then
someone made Mad Men. Mad man, excuse me, but that was, you know, that was for
years. It was, it was that kind of approach and I just feel like we have to get past this.
Hesitation of, how do you make a film about climate change compelling when it's the most
compelling issue on the planet? Well, I think one of the things that you did so well is in
addition to the footage that I think everyone who watched the movie, won't forget the
people who you bring in to help tell the story.
They have agency. They're doing something that you didn't just seek out people who had
the, I mean, obviously, we talked to people that have hardships. How did you find the
characters in the movie? Like, I mean, you talked about Daisy, but how did you go about
rounding up the human voices that you use? I mean, usually when you start a documentary
you it's I mean, it's like I love making documentaries because every film is like doing a
course at University and he's sort of start with nothing and you find a few people when you
start talking and they refused food and more people more people. So it's really just it's my
favorite part of filmmaking which I call Discovery is the first few months because by the end
of it, you know, you you've been in it for a long time. So it was doing covid actually and it
The really bad part, the beginning of covid-19, all didn't really leave the house or know it
was happening. And you know, I was in LA and I just spent a ton of time on zoom and most
of the people in the film. I didn't meet until the day we filmed them because the covid
restrictions, you know, by the time I got to Australia did Hotel quarantine for two weeks.
There was very limited travel, you know, everyone had to do covid test before we got to see
them even in all these small towns and it was kind of tricky convincing. Some of them to
take over test because there was no Kai over there that It was really, I was on Zoom like just
non-stop for months talking to people and and you often find people who are great, but
then you don't put them in the Will you film them and they don't make it? So to me, it's
A person has to have a reason to be in it and they have to progress the story. And so, one of
the things I was very wary of was having, you know, sort of victim after victim after victim,
not that their stories aren't incredibly valuable and we have so much empathy for them, but
it can't be repetitious you have to keep progressing. So, you know, there's only really one
person Jan in mallacoota, you know who talks about losing a house, but she does it in a way
that I don't think we've seen before because so many people Australians are laconic and
sort of, you know, proud and and Quiet about tragedy and she when she says, no I've lost.
All of my parents and my grandparents things. I've lost a part of my life. She just says it in
this very calm Manner and I think that's sort of heartbreaking, but every person was there
for a very specific reason. One question of the audience is how they can help get people to
see your movie. It. Is there any advice you have on that? I guess I'm, you know pies tell
everyone about it. So I shall media, you know, just be annoying. One thing that I'm really
grateful for is that will get to continue working together on Bluebird, green docs, and I guess
one question. When I wanted to leave you with is now that you've made a Fantastic climate
film. What are you hoping to see in terms of the next generation of climate filmmaking of
climate documentaries? Mmm.
Is. It's always really fun, watching new films. And because this is short dark. So I feel like
there might be a lot of young filmmakers. I mean, I would say, I think with short dark so you
can really hone in on a subject. So I'm guessing they'll be some things that I've never heard
of, or know of, and I'm assuming it's Global range. It is. So, I'm expecting lots of stories that
we've never heard of that. Will be really great. And I'm also expecting, probably if it's, I'm
thinking, it's going to be young filmmakers. Some reason that submit films, but I feel like a
lot of them might be optimistic, which would be a nice. Change. It would be I'm but I'm sure
there'll be some horror stories too. Well on the hoop.
The balance between optimism and horror stories. I think we'll leave it there. I'm so grateful
that you were with us. Today. I want to just make a few last announcements before we
wrap this up. The first is to remember that burning is going to be on Amazon Prime. By the
end of this month. Is that right? November 26th. Globally. We are going to be. We already
spoke about the bluebird, green Docks, but there's going to be a website with more
information about how to submit 10-minute films. It's a bloomberg.com / green docks, you
can also sign up for the Green Daily newsletter while you're there. And follow the rest of my
team's reporting from cop 26 and Beyond. And I wanted to just remind everybody that
we're going to be back in the same space tomorrow for a day-long, Bloomberg, green
Summit event, including a one-on-one interview with u.s. Climate en Voyage on carry in our
editor-in-chief and a great list of scientists and Executives. And climate leaders who are all
going to be here throughout the day. I hope you'll come back here tomorrow. And I'll see
you all the summit. And thank you for being here tonight for burning.
There are reasons for Hope needs to have the courage to try for jobs created in the green economy change.
It's not the problem. Climate change is the expression for Energy Technologies to fundamentally transform. The energy system are at our disposal. How do we began the process of reversing global warming?
I need Innovation and this going to be starting to buy electric cars.
Launch the largest tree Plantation campaign is now cheaper to build offshore wind farm development climate altering. My continually reinvesting in our grasp and be on lockdown.
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Please welcome to the stage Global head of Bloomberg live. Patrick. Garrigan and Bloomberg live. Deputy Global editor Mollica comp poor.
Hello and welcome to the Bloomberg green Summit AT cop. We're so pleased, you can be with us. We do have an audience joining us from around the world virtually. Thank you for logging on and those of you in the room. I can't even begin to tell you how I did. We are to have a real-life audience with us because as, you know, it has been a while you're here because you want to accelerate climate action. We are here because we share your goal and a The ways Bloomberg green at cop 26 brings to Bear the best of Bloomberg. And our teams have been here across the past two weeks leveraging. A truly Global Newsroom data and insights, and more ways for people to experience our work than anyone else in the world.
And we do all this because it's important in telling the story of climate change. We'll get started in just a minute. But first, we want to acknowledge our founding partner jll and are presenting sponsors for today dassault. Eames and msci and I just have a couple of quick announcements so you can get the most of your experience and your time with us today.
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Okay, let's get started with that. We begin in Asia where our colleague Bloomberg televisions? David Ingalls, sat down with Laura cha chairman of the Hong Kong. Kong Stock Exchange, and here's their conversation.
Hi everyone. So we're here. Cop 26. We find ourselves at a Crossroads really as a species and really how to measure how far we've actually come. So, the next couple of days it's going to be about goal-setting measuring those goals and really just getting a sense. Realistically of what is possible. What should be possible? What we can do. So, just to get a sense, really from a business from the markets, just capitalism perspective here, on how you really allocate Capital. We're joined here by Laura. She's the At Hong Kong exchanges.
So I guess. Let's start off by something very simple. Cop 26, what are your expectations? I certainly hope that this time there will not just be very vague agreement. We should have concrete plans and timeline. It is really Time for Action climate and environment doesn't wait for us and we have seen in the last year's the disasters. The natural disaster. The increase in temperature, Etc. We really have to have an action plan, very much. Hope that cop 26 will come up with some concrete plans. Everyone seems to agree that there needs to be ambitious commitments. Right? What those commitments are then you get disagreements between both countries. Yes, especially the sort of larger developing countries like India and China, for example, who are the biggest emitters right as we speak. Yes, how do you think the world should divvy up commitments? Especially when they look at Asia.
I think Asia is a complicated case because one we have the largest population globally and secondly we have different, we have economies and different stages of development and, and countries such as China, Japan and South Korea have each made their commitment for to reach Net Zero by 2060. And the case of china 2050 in the case of Japan and South Korea, but some of the smaller and developing economies. Perhaps I'm able to at this stage to make that commitment because of their development need. So I think there has to be, as we say, the term that has been commonly used, and I personally agree is common but differentiated responsibilities.
And that means some of the countries, some of the economies might have a larger role and they are able to do that. And and there will have to be a multitude of different options and different timelines. But the goal has to be a uniform. One has a be on a United front. Everybody has to be in the game and depending on one situation, the timeline might be slightly varied, certainly these things. Move in Cycles. There's a longer term cycle. There's a short term cycle and I guess going back to the earlier point. Where is it fair to? To place the same burden you say, on asia-pacific, developing economies on. Did you know that? People are placing on, developing a very good example.
China has a Target. Yeah, but then now, they're having to scramble to find coal because it's a power shortage exactly similar with India. What is, how should we approach that dilemma? Well, it's not easy. So to me and, you know, it's not just, it will come look at climate and, you know, pollution and Supply Etc in this. Sing in the single facet, it also involved a livelihood, the alleviation of poverty, you know, some of these.
I'll be able to get an electricity as cheaply, so you really have to balance. You cannot completely disengage in the sense that if we do not let the institutions Finance them. They will find other ways and we will more expensive. Is it better or worse for the for the underprivileged under development, underdeveloped economies? So really it's not that straightforward. And so, I feel how do we encourage that? That it has to.
A process. And in the end, the larger institutional investors certainly had a role they allocate. I know that some of them already allocated part of their portfolio, right to only to sustainable products. So necessarily, they have to remove some. So gradually, it will be Market Force as well as government policy that will help move that in the right direction. It does feel that we are moving in the right direction. I mean, yeah. That's what managers really yapping. A big part of their portfolios already in there. Well, the other risk to that and the downfalls so far so far and it's a minor.
One is that proceeds? For example of green bonds? Yeah, some of them have found themselves, not into green projects. How do you police against that? Then from an exchange point of view? That is the same as any other company that raise the capital and say they want to use it for certain project and at the end it didn't end up in a certain project. Okay, so it's the same right? But in this case is the green, whether we call it green washing or really not using it for the right thing. There is, you know, ISM. They are enforcement issues.
A disclosure issues. And at the end of the day, you know, it's the, you know, the accounting firms have to disclose in the annual report, what how the funds have been used and it's from there that, you know, one can take action, final thoughts to government leaders, corporate leaders that are embarking on this, you know, setting their agenda. What do they need to keep in mind? I think most importantly, is that we have to be on a United front. We cannot have different countries, have different objective. There's a Genda should be the same. The pathway may be different but the agenda.
Go has to be the same and you believe in climate change, right? Definitely. Okay, whatever you sure. Laura Jack. Thank you so much, honey. TX. Share their thank you so much guys will will see you guys next time.
Please welcome to the stage. A manual pin. Yo of the C40 cities, climate leadership group, Bristol, mayor, Marvin reefs and raffaella schweiger of the Robert Bosch stiff Tong with Bloomberg lives Mollica Kapoor.
We're here today to talk about the impact of climate change, on migration and human Mobility. People entering and leaving cities as a result of climate change. Globally. It's estimated that up to 1 billion, people could be driven away from their homes within the next 30 Years. That is a staggering. Number Mary's. I want to begin with you this year. You've worked with mayor's from around the world, to establish the global, mayor's task force on climate and migration. You've taken Input from users around the world.
You're here at cop to present an action agenda. What's at the top of this agenda? But it's about making sure that Meryl voices are front and center of the global conversation. And yet, and the action on migration, they've been absent in many ways that the migration Works been dominated by national governments, but I think mares cities have a unique perspective to bring cities are nodes in flows, they exist because stuff, moves people move Finance, moves, culture moves, and That's a very different perspective. Even in my own country, former.
Governments. The often talk in terms of discrete identities and borders and protection, but we're very much talking about building resilience within our cities. In terms of our action agenda, good cities. Good urbanization are more resilient in terms of climate change, but also offer more of a pool or a place where people can sit. We're talking about offering real leadership. So that leaders are offering a real Welcome to our city. He's but also adjust inclusive, post covid recovery as well, which is absolutely essential both for climate.
And for migration so that people from all backgrounds are included and benefit from the recovery, and we know that one of the biggest threats are coming out of covid. Is that it's the poorest and most vulnerable who were hit first and hardest, but then their least while place the benefit from any recovery when it comes. So we could be compounding those inequalities. So there's a very three, very important principles for us, social inequality, and migration and climate change are so closely interlinked, and I want to come back to that in a minute Emmanuel. I want to come to you. Next.
You're part of C 40, which is a network of nearly a hundred mayor's from around the world and you are an advocate for City. Diplomacy. Tell me, how does City diplomacy work? Or can it work effectively when you also have National governments? So, I think
Task force met mayor Ruiz has integrated, is a very great example of the power of City diplomacy. It's bringing Mayors and mayor voice voices together to build a common voice that will then influence global policy, debates, or national policy debates on different topics. Mayor's have been very vocal on climate change for years since at least 20 years with sit. The network such as sea, 40 or others.
And we see increasingly them, taking action and being proactive on specific topics such as the covid-19 recover, you mentioned and now climate and migration. And this is really a powerful tool to ensure that the urban perspective, the urban interest which reflects, not only obviously the priorities of the mayor's but also the priorities of the urban population and the city dwellers in general, is Part of the global conversation.
Common voice. Is it really possible to have a common voice when you're working with a hundred mayor's a, from different cities around the world because the each City obviously has its own unique set of challenges. Based on its geography. Just socioeconomic status of the city. Is it possible to have a common voice it is? But as always in diplomacy, we speak of common, but differentiated so, there are some common objective. There are some common Benchmark that we are setting ourselves. But obviously, with different
Isn't and winces depending on where the city or the mayor comes from, and I'll take the example of City access to finance. Its a global challenge for all cities, both cities in the global North and in the global South struggle to finance. The transformative climate action, they committed to do, but the modalities are a bit different. So we're working these Global challenge as a Amin advocacy.
Check for all cities, but obviously with different approaches depending on the geographical origin of the city's Rafaela. You work for one of Europe's largest foundations. How are you engaging with the mayor's task force. So first we are a key partner of the Justice, the 40 Years of the mayor's migration Council and the task force Dave forward. And I first really want to say that this action agenda that may have he's just presented is one. That is Really looking at the 360 degrees?
Church to climate and migration from protecting vulnerable population, including those displaced to job creation for, for migrants and everyone in cities for greener, economies, and for resilience in their city, so, so that's really a new thing. And that's, that's excellent. And I'm really proud to share in this session for the first time that we as Bush Foundation have committed a 1 million u.s. Dollars to support This agenda for a so-called.
It is funded initially has been set up by the mayor's migration Council last year in order to meet to support cities in supporting their residents, especially migrants and displaced communities in their cities because of covid-19 and a really inequality that has risen in cities and this mechanism is now being expanded. Also, in collaboration with c42 start with this first investment, and we hope that That others will join for what we call a
Cities fund on inclusive, climate action, we will start with African cities and we have a cop next year in Africa, but we hope to expand because it's really about when we talk about access to financing to Showcase how financing can directly go to cities to address those issues and the recommendations of the task force has been put forward.
And just to add it's not just us sitting here that recognizing the inter-linkages few weeks ago. Two years, President. Biden has put forward a report for the first time recognizing climate and motivation being interval. Ated and the mayor's, especially you estimate is Eric Garcetti from Los Angeles. For example, who's also see 40 mayor have sent a letter to the president and desist letter into recommendations is Recognized in this report. So we really see a movement.
And I think I was supporting as a foundation. You can do. Grant-making can support those great initiatives, but you can also invest in local projects and to Showcase how this leadership can be implemented locally. You talked, about financing reaching cities, right? That's the goal that the find the money reaches cities directly Mary's. How difficult is that? I mean, we just had this announcement of a million dollars. How do we ensure that the money meant for cities to combat climate change actually reaches cities? Well, there's a real example.
To be followed here with the boss foundations announcement and working directly with cities. It's one of the challenges. We've brought a cop as a whole it's so I can look at no end of best practices, right? Yeah. I don't go to no end of gathering of Mayors. We can look at League tables of who's done the best green Walls, and retrofitted.
But then the next question, I faces a mayor as well. Why much did it cost, right? I've got one Revenue budget. If we put money into experts for the, you know, Consultants or whatever on decarbonisation, that's money. We could have put into adult social care with children's mental health. And actually, sometimes the population are saying, hold on. We've got an immediate crisis here. Are you spending money on on that? So, it is raw that the Challenger Finance is Rule and to be and And the challenge we've been taking on with C40 as well, actually have made this.
Liz is how you begin to make sure that that mares cities have direct access to the finance at the scale at the right time that we need to drive on decarbonization and that their access to, that Finance has to be made available. It has to be there irrespective of what national governments are or are not able to do.
So for example, look at the u.s. Mayor's United States mayor's like Eric Garcetti, irrespective of what Donald Trump said. They said. Don't worry. We're going to focus on decolonization. Yeah. Hi. So, you know, we have to realize as well, the truth that you cannot tackle decarbonization, unless you decarbonized the world cities. So identify Progressive mayor's, irrespective of what national politicians are saying. Identify Progressive measures in every chat to them. If I can just see, there are a couple of challenges that we face that we know of one is is is Is getting the decarbonization projects investment ready?
That takes investment in and of itself. We don't always have that. So we've on a key Sawyer from Freetown. The, she's just had a catastrophic fuel explosion in free time. That's going to bring loads of costs, just to spend money on that. All right. So how do we make sure that that that she still has access to the, to the long medium, to long-term aim of decarbonizing free time. And then there's the next challenge is scale. So sometimes individual cities coming through, don't offer the scale that International Investment needs. So, how can we be of the vehicles? It will allow cities to begin to operate as collectives and enter the market, you know, you know.
Scale. So this is, this is where I've often said, you know, in many ways, what we are not talking about now is banners and t-shirts. We're talking about experts in Excel sheets, people who can actually put these deals together, but it has to transcend National governments because you've already Frank National governments are too often like Punch-Drunk Fighters. They're in the ring. They want to stay in the ring, but they can't get the shots off and I think cities can offer. A can offer letter can operate a level of dynamism that many national Is cannot.
Emmanuel you work with cities from around the world right now, Tommy, the need is for investment into Global. South cities. Is that right? Well in all cities, but Global South cities have take. You literally. Yeah. I have more needs perhaps than than than Global not cities. And there's going to be a huge opportunity next year to put that topic very strongly in the agenda with the cop 27 in Africa in Egypt. In Egypt, and we are.
Using a roadmap of African cities to cup 27 where precisely this topic of access to climate finance, will be Central. And the topic, obviously of climate and migration as well and finance for climate and migration projects in the middle Rafaela, you know, the main narrative about climate change and migration is usually negative. You know, we talk about displacement and people being forced to flee their homes because of a climate crisis.
Is there a way to look at this through a positive lens is their opportunity when we see such Mass migration of humans from one area to another? So the short answer is yes. The longer one is most of climate migration initially happens. Internal. It's short distance. It's either disaster displacement or slow out on said processes that forces people step-by-step to move and where do they go to First? Places to probably the nearest city or where they would have.
Relative. So the question is really in many cities are taking up on that challenge is how to create green and inclusive economies in cities where urbanization is, is something positive. How can the structures and damages be adapted. And that also include migrants and we need workers for the green transition. We need new skills. We need different skills development, but that didn't Ludes Urban residents that have been there for a long time.
I'm and, and migrants, and even migrant workers that actively come to places to contribute to to the green transition. And that is also part of the story. And it's also very well reflected in the, in the action, agenda to see 40 and Maze migration Council have put forward. And that's a big part of the story. And of course.
Displacement happens. Very dramatic life changes happen, but there can be also early adaptation mechanism. So there can be, it doesn't have to come over to the to the worst case scenario for people. And that's that's also part of the story. And yeah, and I think you can make it an opportunity but you need investments in cities and that starts with Waste Management, more people moving into cities that starts with slum. Fellows. And, and how?
Islam's for example are being developed, especially in global South cities with social housing with access to Services. All the things that that might not be related. Also to migration. That's my perspective and coming from but it is because it's all coming with the question of people moving and settling somewhere new. In fact, the ILO says it predicts that a move to a green economy will end up creating 24 million jobs between 2018 and 2030. Mary's, tell me a little bit about job creation. Ation in Bristol, are you being able to create new jobs as a
Out of Bristol moving towards a green economy. Well, we are sisters quite, you know, Progressive City, and we've got thriving, Green Tech sector and we have a good brand. And so that draws, you know, companies to Bristol, who want to be involved in some of the developments around the green Industries, but what we need urgently, is the ability to plan a phrase. I've used a lot. Not you. No friend of mine. Who's a senior Army, Officer says, make a plan.
He planned just make a bloody plan. Let's start with that. Yeah. Yeah. So what we don't need right now is chaos, right? What we don't need is more uncertainty. The world is chaotic as it. Is, it is we potentially go over Tipping Point. Where more chaos, what we don't need is more uncertainty with unplanned funding pots. Unplanned, you know policy. What we need is to get ourselves organized in the face of this, this chaos and so forth. I see so, for example, around Finance, we're taking Seriously. Now,
So what we don't need is a 2021 Finance tracks that mayor's them have to spend time navigating and understanding and it becomes mad. So we need Finance to get organized. A national governments to get organized. That would allow cities to plan so we can then think forward. Okay. What is the shape of the economy going to be in five years? We can then think about the skills that will be needed. We can then begin to plan for those communities that are farthest from the labor. Markets and Economic Opportunity, most disadvantaged and plan.
Pathway in. Now. Let's say the front's on that Friday when it's, that's good for migrant communities and is a night. I find a little bit uncomfortable, talking about Margaret. I am the product of migration. My my great-grandmother was Irish settled in South Wales. My weight grandfather came from South Wales to England. Migrant. My dad was a. Twelve-year-old came from Jamaica.
So I'm the physical embodiment of migration and interracial migration as well. So but it's good for migrants because then we can plan. But to tackle migration. We also look at indigenous populations as it were. All right, how can help people who feel that their lives are under threat. They've got no sense of their identity. They then they are then vulnerable to sulking about those people coming over here and taking our jobs and taking our lives. So we have to be able to plan. Civ Economic Development.
- migrants I'm indigenous communities as it were so that we can have a transition that is not preyed upon by opportunist politicians. You might like to sow the seeds of political extremism. But that.
Name is essential to that jobs pipeline.
Go back to talking about social inequality, which I know all of you are passionate about as we get into the winter months, you know, the one thing that I think about is energy poverty, you know, Energy prices are spiraling out of control and we could be in a situation where we will see families having to choose between paying for food, or paying for heat, which is a very, you know, difficult situation to be in Emmanuel in your experience, working with cities from around the world. What steps? Are being done towards?
Creating affordable clean energy. The energy crisis I think, is a really good example of the joint challenges of climate change and development in here, at in general, and Mayors have understood that and they are taking action to tackle both together. So, for example, retrofitting intensively the housing in right cities in the global South, we speak more of a grading information. All settlements.
And this, as Mary's was describing is creating millions of jobs all over the world. So it's a virtual Circle, definitely of climate policy and economic development. And other thing they are doing is calling very strongly for a just transition from for all workers and all communities in the in the green and low-carbon transition. So making sure. Sure, that no work.
Those are left behind the ones who have to transition from the fossil fuel energy system to a green Energy. System are risky build-up skilled and find new Green Quality jobs, and also that obviously the low-income communities have access to Affordable Energy Systems in the housing. Mary's. As a mayor of Bristol.
What are you doing to ensure that your residents don't have to make that choice between heating or eating?
We're building. We've prioritized house building as our key policy tool. So we're trying to, you know, we we are building lots of houses and affordable homes, and that's our by our own definition of affordable, at what we call social rent. So, the homes, we build our on heat networks ground Source, heat, air source, heat, and are more efficient homes. The challenge comes with the existing stock, which is where we're talking about retrofitting homes. That's a bigger challenge, because While we want to retrofit homes again, that cost money. Yeah. And
To be perfectly. Frank of my cabinet members up here as well. And next few days. Even if we had the money to do it today. We don't necessarily have the skills to deliver that work, right? So again it planning. Yes, give us give us as much certainty as we can. But what we are doing on that front is. We have also made a real priority about tackling hunger.
And around one, in five children in Bristol at risk of hunger. And it's going to be shocking because we talk about the global North and the global South, but this is the reality of modern day Britain and it will be the same in places like United States as well. But by tackling hunger, we can also take the pressure off the household budget so they can actually protect money for spending on heating their homes. So we need a plan and we need funding and funding brings me back to you or a fella. What are some of the other creative ways to encourage funding towards cities? So that people, Like, May erase have the funds to make their cities more green.
So I think one is really the stool that was established with the global cities fund, which is a one-time thing to direct funding to cities. And I think the the biggest scale questions are how our development agencies, how National governments directly giving funding to cities. How do these mechanisms are aligned if you talk about development Aid,
How to make sure that not every government has different funding schemes and different application processes that are cities are fed up in paperwork and Excel spreadsheets Etc. So so it's really about the technical tools and how to approach that. But then it's also about the political will, and the acknowledgement of the role of cities in National and international policies. And we come back to the question of diplomacy. Four months.
Like today and on Thursday, the mayor's will again be very visibly present and here at cop to talk about what cities can can deliver and that it will pay dividends actually to invest directly in cities and to give them also the freedom. But also Partners who can support with the technical tools with helping to bring a project to to a stage where it can be implemented and and to make that a bit bigger and Hyundai Asians really can just give an incentive a story.
Talking about ideas and and then hoping and calling on others to come in. But then also calling on governments to do that in a bigger in a bigger scale. And then, lastly, I think at this cop, and especially at next cop, adaptation Finance needs to be bigger. First more needs to go to the global South and more needs to go to cities directly and seeing that. I mean, that would be a Big Hope. And
For for this week to be negotiated, but but to back towards that also in the next year and I think the mayor is a very ready to do. So, but with all the all the partners because that would really Drive change and how we will can be bring those good examples to the table. Well, I hope we can come back and meet you again. So you want to have one last word. I'm out of time, but I'll give you one last week, but I wanted to just have just yet. Just as we talk. It's just about the language. We use that.
Yeah, and I think we need to not talk about funding. There's a hierarchy in the dependency. That comes with that language. Everything we do now around finance and good, quality. Organization is an investment that will bring a direct return, or it will reduce future costs and risks and we have to talk. So when we talk about free time, we're not funding for you time. We're investing investing in it, the global return from there.
I like that's a good note to leave it on about investing in our future. And I hope we can meet again at cop next year and see how much progress we've made. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you.
And I'm next session for our next session. I want to hand it over to my colleague Kim. Her see, who is in conversation with the CEO of Patagonia.
Hi everyone. I'm Kim. Bhasin. A reporter was Bloomberg News covering athletic companies, and I'm here today with Ryan, Gellert. The CEO of Patagonia. Now, Patagonia is not just a jacket selling company. They've been involved in environmental issues over the past several decades. Thank you so much for joining us today, Ryan, that's good to be here with you. Kim. Thanks.
Now, I want to start off by picking up our conversation from about six months ago. When I wrote a story about you for Bloomberg green magazine. And at that point, you were still just a few months into your job. You had still been working from Amsterdam instead of headquarters out in California. It's been about a year since then. How has that first year been during the the pandemic, as we, as we came out of lockdown and and things kept changing? That's been a it's been a pretty The dynamic year, you know.
Me for all of us have Patagonian. I think, for most people around the world. It's really forced us to just it readjust kind of everything about how we work together, shake up a lot of priorities, but it's also really been a good year for us, valuable year for us to kind of really kind of distill down. What's most important to us and figure out new and creative ways to move that work forward.
And how is your like work life changed? You've moved halfway across the world. Now you're is everyone still working from home or what's the deal there? I mean work life's kind of unrecognizable from two years ago, thats for sure. You know, I am on the other side of the planet, but I think, you know, it's just interesting. I spent so much time doing what you and I are doing right now, which is having conversations from behind a computer screen. I'm here in the office. I work out of the office just about every day. There are some people that come in but our offices are not opened. Our retail stores are our distribution. Spinners are so a lot of the businesses is fully open and has been for some time and we're
Reopening offices probably in March of next year.
What are some of the big initiatives on the activism side that have popped up over that first year as CEO? Yeah, I think there's there's, you know, I use the word distill before. I think one of the really important exercises that we've gone through this year. It's really just stepping back and kind of saying, what are all the things were working on and how do these things tie together? And I think, you know, in a world where our days or 24 hours like everybody else and our resources are what they are no more. No less. I think it's really important. Sometimes it kind of take inventory and A square. Can we have the biggest impact?
I think one of the things we've been really focused on this year's, just looking thoughtfully at how all the pieces hold together as part of our broader climate strategy. And so, that's something that we've been really engaged. And we've released some information on our website, about our carbon footprint, in the composition of that. And then what we're doing in the way of minimizing our footprint, and what we're doing in the way of advocacy. And I mentioned those two because I think I think advocacy is impossible if you don't have some credibility in, you know, moving with a sense of urgency and Boldness in your own footprint and then I am a huge huge believer that much the same way.
Going to be able to recycle our way. Out of this problem, as individuals, when I going to be able to decarbonize our individual businesses, out of this problem, either think it's really going to take systemic change. And so we've been focused a lot on where can we participate in that and recently Patagonia released its climate framework. Can you tell me about that? And what the goals are? Yeah, I mean, I think it is far as the framework itself. What are we trying to accomplish in both communicating it and tying it together as a strategy. It's as I said a moment ago. It's really too big. Ehlers, it's our footprint.
In what are we holding ourselves to and particularly as a company that I think at this point? It's got a really clear sense of what our footprint is and what the composition. What and then therefore. It quits us in a position where we can increasingly and with more Precision Define, what the levers are to minimize our footprint. And so I can talk to you about a bunch of tools. We brought online to do that. But the other pillar that I think is critically important and candidly. I think it's generally under supported in underinvested in In from the business.
The Writ large is the advocacy piece. I think, really recognizing, you know, within the business sector. Think there's been this Evolution from leadership on these topics looking like statements that say, I support this to now leadership coming in the form of companies. Starting to put one foot in front of the other and taking responsibility for their individual footprint, but that's not going to get us there. And so I think the third piece that's so critical is also participating in that systemic change. That's needed.
And I believe there's a big splash across that page that says the climate crisis is our business and a phrase that's repeated several times on. There is not enough. It says not enough, this not enough deck. What's not enough? Well, I think, I think, you know, it's just said a minute ago. Let me step back and frame it this way. I think we, I think the climate and ecological crisis is an existential threat to us as humans. Number one. I think number two. It's an existential threat that we as humans have created. And and so I think what we need is evidence.
Real ever of society working together, taking individual and Collective responsibility for this. And so I think individuals need to make decisions in their lives that minimize their footprint. Individuals need to engage in part of their role. As civil society to put in place, the kind of leadership and set the kind of priorities that are going to allow us to work through this. So I think that's the role of individuals and that's not going to be enough. I think governments need to do what governments candidly were founded to do. Which is help solve the biggest problems that we as humans face, and I don't Think that government is doing nearly enough and the business sector has a role. And I think it's an outsized role given the
Against of the issue and also the responsibility and, you know, in creating this problem that the business sector writ large is created. And so I think that that's taking responsibility within our individual businesses to decarbonize and think about how we think about the full impact that we have, but it's also in driving systemic change. And here's a point. I really want to make clearly because it's something that I've really been wrestling with a lot of late and having conversations with the CEOs of a lot of other companies. There is a real disconnect. Between what businesses are saying to.
Employees and what businesses are saying to their customers and what businesses directly and indirectly through their lobbyists are saying to government and that's a huge problem. And so I would you know Focus specifically on the disconnect between the membership of the Business Roundtable and the strategy that the Business Roundtable and the American Chamber of Commerce are deploying to try to undermine the reconciliation package in process, which has the most ambitious climate goals that we've Obscene in the decade. So let's
Corporate responsibility a bit more. What do you think? Is the problem with? How can we actually hold companies responsible for the promises they make? Well, I think you know, I think that I think that you play a unique role on this and others like in the media, I'd love to tell you that that Business Leaders and corporations are going to wake up tomorrow and go. Yeah, you know, I hadn't really thought about that. Let me pull this thing into let me make sure that it all sounds the same in the intense, the same across the landscape. I have no. No, I have no confidence. That's going to happen.
It's going to take pressure. It's going to take pressure from customers going to. Hopefully also part of this will be regulation from government. And you know, I hate saying that but that's where we're at. And that's what's needed. And so let's do it. But I think it's going to require that businesses are willing to not only pay their taxes, but pay in a, you know, an appropriate amount of tax via established tax rates to ensure that the programs that we all know, we need, can get off the ground, and I think that This leaders particularly through their trade.
I've really got to ask themselves, some tough questions and I think others need to ask those same. Tough questions of them. Is that in fact happening right now. So back to Patagonia on this. How do you do this? Kind of marketing without greenwashing? How do you prove to Consumers that you are? In fact doing something? Well, I don't think I don't think we can prove to Consumers. Anything. I don't anymore than I think we can prove to media that we're doing anything. I think what we can do is have Shannon's, what we can do is seek to be as transparent.
Ernest we know how to do and we can continue to do this over years and decades and build a body of work. And I think in doing that, then it becomes, you know, it's like opinions. I can't tell you what your opinion ought to be. And so I don't think that I have the right to define or answer the question, candidly or we green washing or not. What I think I've got the right to do is share openly our beliefs and our actions and do it in a way that transparent and do it over, you know, again, broad periods of time so that people, Can form their own opinions about the intent to business?
I would say this and let me be clear. It applies to Patagonia like it applies to any other business out there. I really appreciate and respect the fact that people's default setting is cynicism towards the statements that businesses make. I think that is what it ought to be. I think it's unfortunate that that's what it needs to be. But I think that's exactly what it ought to be. So, six months.
We talked about election night and back then. Let me, let me make sure I get this quote, right? You said it was like taking a lot of bricks out of your backpack, as your trudging up hill. What was that? Like, and what's your mindset now? You know, I remember having that conversation. I was sitting in Europe at the time. I think that what probably the thought that was in the back of my head a lot at that time, was the answer to a question. I Remember, Madeleine Albright, providing an in a
Hall meeting, I watched her participate in, in the question from a European media person was, hey, look, we had eight years of rock, Obama. The first African-American president and then it's followed by four years of Donald Trump. What's, what's the real America? And her very pensive, and thoughtful response was, will see you in the next election. And I think that was the voice kind of ringing in my ear, as I was waiting to see the returns of the election. So I think that, you know, for Russ. It's been a very different engagement with the current Administration.
The last appoint that I have made many times, it will make here again is we're not an extension of the democratic party and we're not a company that is averse to conservative points of view. We're a company in business to save our home planet and we engage through that prism and that prism to be clear continues to sort of expand out. And include some other areas that I feel very strongly about an access to the ballot and voting rights is one of them.
And you're very active during that that election with voting and then in Georgia as well. You kept some some employees. They're working with voting rights organizations. Do you see that last election as a success II? Don't look. I mean, I think the, I think the only thing that we can gauge success on is the overall health of the planet, and I don't think there's anything that suggests that's moving in the right direction. And so, we've got an Administration that views that very differently. I admire in a line. I'm with a lot of their beliefs, but if you measure,
It on what have they actually been able to deliver at this point? I don't think anybody can feel very good about that. And if you step back even further and not think about, it is just through the lens of American politics, or even politics, writ, large, you say. How's the planet to do? And how's the health of the planet? What trajectory early on where's is going to take us? I don't think there's anything to get excited about. So, your relationship with the previous?
Illustration was famously. Combative. I would describe it. You sued them over over public lands, and so on now. Things are different.
But what's, what's it like, working with with the Biden Administration, you know, again, I should start, by saying that we've aligned with administration's overtime on different issues and we fought with them, and that's whether there's Democratic administrations, Republican administrations. Otherwise, what I would say though, to your question, what's it been? Like there's been a lot of Engagement in the engagements and abroad across a broad swath of topics with many different peoples from people from the administration. So direct engagement with the White House on a couple of issues, one is Is Bears ears and the re-establishment of the Obama, borders of America's newest National Monument?
Bears in southeast Utah. The other is around. Paid leave. And in support for Working Families, which is an issue that is extremely important to us. And it's an issue that we have on behalf of our own employees, you know, had for many decades, a lot of things in place including on-site Child Development Center. So it's an issue that we feel very strongly about and think that we have some, some legitimate point of view to be considered on. So those are some of those examples we've worked with John Kerry. Around, you know, the intersection of business.
I met and it's a described before. I don't think with a lot of success collectively and then there's been a host of other areas including with, you know, Department of Commerce and elsewhere and focused on how can we use the work that they do to put in place climate and Earth friendly policies and how can that connect with trade?
I do want to get into Bears ears, more. Can you take us through that that Saga over the past four years and then the conclusion coming up to now? Yeah. Well, I would say first that, you know, we've been involved in trying to protect that area for about a decade, like any work that we do, it's with local communities. So this is not a Patagonia campaign. This is really in support of the local communities and trying to be additive.
To the desire of people on the ground particularly indigenous populations in the area in southeast Utah to protect those areas. And so that's been how we have gotten into it. You know, it is an area that's got great outdoor sport connection, but that's not been our primary focus on it. But you know, it's not lost on probably too many people that that's also part of it's a place that I've rock climbing for many years. Some of the best rock climbing in the world. So that's what's brought us into have been into it for about a decade, you know, at the end of Obama's presidency. See, he put into place protections about 1.35 million Acres.
And very early in President Trump's Administration. He reverse that and collapse the borders by about 85%. And so President Obama under the leadership of Secretary of the Interior Deb Holland has re-established. The original boundaries about a month ago, which we feel is a tremendous step in the right direction. Have you been there recently? Yeah. It was there a funny enough. I was actually headed there for the first time in many years at the same time that President Biden and Announced the day I was leaving.
Actually got an invitation to the White House to join a ceremony around. It was a signing ceremony around public lands and that was as much information. As that was it was pretty clear that this was going to be related to Pairs. And I was actually flying out that day with my son to go to Bears ears and spend some time. So thought about going to Washington and believed ultimately that it would just be most unique and valuable to be on the grounds ground in Bears ears with the local community, and tribal leaders who have invested so much in candidly lost a lot along the way, including trust and Hope. As as this s momentous moment took place. And so I was I was in the region that day.
Men with my 10 year old son, which was, I mean, candidly one of the highlights, not just my professional life, but my life. And you're not just focused on the Utah Wilderness. There's this all sorts of other projects going on out there. Can you tell me about some other places where that you're focused on? Yeah. I mean, you know, first it should be noted that we're focused on areas, not just the United States, but around the world. I believe very strongly and the framework that is, you know, it's really becoming kind of a live Global discussion around 30 by 30 ultimately with the Hope for 50 by 50, and that's protecting.
Set of our of our spaces around the world, both terrestrial and Marine by 2030 and then looking beyond that, you know, we're very focused on the tongass forest in Alaska, are very focused on the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Also in Alaska, but you know an area that's really important to me. And I've been personally involved in for six, seven years now is protecting Europe's last wild rivers and those flow solely in the Balkan Peninsula. And there are there are You know, every river in the heart of Europe.
Bench, analyzed and Damned, and rerouted and impacted. And the only natural Rivers whatever's left in all of Europe is in the Balkan Peninsula. And so I'm actually headed over to Europe the week after next, to meet at the invitation of the Prime Minister of Albania to talk about creating Europe's. First Wild River national park around the vyasa river which flows from the mountains of Greece across Albania, to, the Adriatic Sea. It's about a hundred sixty kilometres and it's just a beautiful and pristine River. So have really high hopes that maybe we can play some A small role in permanently protected.
How do you decide what to devote resources to with with so many that you, this could be infinite, right? How do you decide which ones to go for? You know, I think it's two things. One is, you know, I think you hit on a point that I've been reflecting on and we all here at Patagonia been reflecting on a lot over the last year and that is, you know, how do we avoid being a mile wide and an inch deep? And how instead did we figure out, you know, kind of what is that framework? Where we think we can be most additive? And I think the easiest thing for us to do is identify things. We're passionate about and get excited about making a contribution to them. I think the hardest thing for us to do is say no.
Because there are so many areas in need and we want to be involved in so many things and I think one of the things we've come to recognize is there are times where we need to say. No so that we can make the yeses count more. And I think that's something we've been really focused on. But to answer your question. I think it's overwhelmingly community-led. It's really trying to be networked with communities on the front lines of issues and really try to understand what's most important to them. Why, and where can we have the biggest impacts? I think the other thing we've been thinking about a lot this year is where are we? We where do we have something uniquely added?
To bring to this, you know, I think and I say this with, you know, all humility, but I think we're pretty good storytellers. We're pretty good activating community. And we've got some authenticity that comes from being involved in this work for a number of decades. And so I think really figuring out where is the Nexus between the need and what we can bring to this and and that's where we try to focus. And we've talked a lot about,
Was that aren't what Patagonia cells and you do need to, you do run a large or larger sportswear business. So with product what are you working on in terms of sustainability and reducing reducing your footprint? Yeah. There's quite a bit there. I mean, I think some of our biggest priorities are getting all virgin petroleum-based fibers out of our product collection by 2025, you know, look Unapologetic, or at least clear as I can be about the fact that we make product that people love. Of that. They want that. They don't necessarily need to survive.
I've so you know, we have to understand that. You know, we're that's the business were in and so we've got to take really high level of responsibility for ensuring that we're minimizing our footprint. And so we do still make product today, that has petroleum inputs and we need to move past that. So that's when things were highly focused on one of the other things we're focused on in. This is very iterative based on. Our history is really scaling. This relationship that we have with our customers to help them keep their products in use as long as possible, and that's through product, or Pair, which is again, you know, kind of a legacy of how Legacy programs within Patagonia.
We run the largest apparel repair center in North America and we have many facilities direct and indirect around the world on this, but also buying product back from people when it's still got usable life, but they're done using it and upcycling Recycling, and ensuring that we have really taken responsibility for the end of life of everything we make. And again, it's one thing to kind of have these programs exist in Pilot or, you know, exists at some level. It's another thing to put them at the heart of the business and really We redefine what business were in.
Move past being in the business of selling brand new product and in diversifying that in being in the second-hand business and Beyond. So those are some of the things that we're really focused on. All right, right.
Out of time, but thank you so. So much for helping out with me today to chat, but all these things, I really appreciate you and appreciate your time today. It's great being with you Kim. Thanks a ton.
Please welcome to the stage Roberto, Marquez executive chairman of the board of directors and group, CEO of natur & Co for a conversation with Bloomberg, green, executive editor, Aaron, Rod, cough.
Roberto, thank you for being here with us. Remember green Summit, and I just want to remind everybody in the audience, that there should be a URL behind me for your questions and I will read them off as you submit them. I wanted to start by talking, about Cosmetics as an editor of a kind of publication. You become curious about the emissions that are embedded in all sorts of things that you wouldn't assume beforehand. And some of the stories we've done about the Cosmetics industry. We learned that the Could the creams in the makeups and shampoos that we put
Body are often made from petrochemical products. I was wondering if you could talk to us about the how you go about decarbonizing, the ingredients that make up many of the products that you sell. Yeah, so thanks for having me. Good morning. Everybody, a great to be here. So, listen, you know, it is a very important challenge but one that we're very committed to address, you know, not to drink all for those who do not know.
You know, it's a group of purpose LED companies. So we have not to do that. Is based in Brazil. We have the body shop, based in UK Avon based in UK and use up based in Australia. And as a group of cosmetic companies, we last year. We launched it, our 2030 sustainability agenda. Right? And one of the key goals for us is to become actually Net Zero by 2030, which is as a reference is, Auntie years ahead.
Off the Paris agreement, 2050 and more important is actually not only a net zero and scope one, but it scope, one scope to and scope three, which lets up and prefer a different scope. One is what we produce scope to is what we buy, energy, wise and scope tree is the whole supply chain, upstream and downstream.
Which means that your question, how we solve for that, we understand already from a baseline that about 80% of our emissions come from scope three. So unless we so for scope three, we're never going to be able to get to Net Zero and the key were ready. Know, what are the key of fenders of that. We know that it's packaging with know that it's ingredient.
We know that it's transportation and some of the printed material that we use. So, in order for us to get to Net Zero, we are actually tackling those things in a very specific way. We have a framework in how we're going to get there. And I also like to say that is not about just 2030 if we don't reach our goals almost like on a yearly basis.
So it's almost like you know, how we're going to get to that. We never going to have a chance. So couple things that we are doing. We are committed to have about 95 percent of plus of our ingredients being natural ingredients. And right now we are about plus 80 percent. We are committed to have a hundred percent of our packaging either recyclable reusable or compostable.
And we are on a path to do that. So examples like The Body Shop, refills that. If you go to some of the body shop stores in UK, you're going to see refill stations, which is pretty cool. It's a way to also educate customers and how to use review products in a more engaged way. So there's a series of, you know, activities and and which we also believe that will drive Innovation. That's the other important thing, you know, some people think about Adding those goals is very
A challenge and they are. But the flip side is that they also bring a lot of innovation to the to the system. So daunting task, don't in Target, but we are very committed to try to get to that. So I want to talk about the way you're changing consumer Behavior, especially the refill stations, but I first want to focus on the Innovation side of this. I mean, I know there's Innovation also in the packaging side of your products for the getting to 80% plant-based ingredients has that required. Developing new materials. Materials to put in cosmetics, so,
Of the industry uses petrochemical products that are similar to ingredients. You might find in say like jet fuel or crude oil, is how have you developed a supply chain for plant based Alternatives? Yeah. So one great example is not true, They're Not Tourist, been working the Amazon region for 20 years, right? And always with this mindset, that it is absolutely possible to drive Economic Development and preserving the forest.
And the way to do it is really leveraging, the biodiversity of the forest and working with the local communities. I'll give one example, one of my favorite examples, one of the ingredients of the lines of mathura. By the way, almost every single item of mathura lines today, carry some kind of ingredient from biodiversity, from the Amazon, right?
Who Kuba is a tree in the Amazon, right? Which was being used for really for the local communities to cut the trees and self as, as a way, you know, broom, right, and they were making two reais per tree, right? So that was their way to create some existence and make their living by working, with R&D. And we have an R&D facility in the Amazon in a Manufacturing. Who are able to see that the seed of death?
Three has some very interesting moisturizing properties. Interesting by extracting that from the biodiversity of the Amazon. We're able to preserve the tree and pay three times more for the same community. So leveraging, biodiversity, working with the local communities is a way that you can get to some natural ingredients and at the same time preserving the forest. So it's a win-win-win. So win for the local communities, is a win for the planet, and it's a win for the company. Me.
Well, so that speaks to the supply chain side, the ingredients since we're here at a climate conference. We have audience questions that are extremely knowledgeable Source. One of the audience members wants to know about scope, three emissions, which also goes down to the use of your products. Many consumer, good products have to worry about say, consumer washing their face with hot water. As a part of the scope of your missions. Is that something that you're also concerned with? Do you have to worry about consumer behavior? On the back end for your scope, three calculation. Consumer behavior is key to address scope. Three, absolutely the key. Question, you know, we always
Also like to say that before we call them customers or consumers, they are citizens and if you treat customers are citizens and actually engage them and explain why it's important to. For instance, use refused what's important to experiment, different formats of products that actually use less water.
Right. And some of those might be counterintuitive, but if you take them along the journey, and if you treat them as Citizens, not just as customers. I do believe that they want to also have an impact. They understand the challenge that we all here discussing. So the more we treat society and the more we treat customers are citizens.
I think the better, we have a chance to actually create an impact, you know, I'll give another example, which I also think that is important. One company is not going to be able to really solve some of those issues in specific categories. We need it actually to collaborate even among competitors to be able to actually create scales and some of those Solutions. So we actually in our part of a Consortium with L'Oreal with Unilever, with lvmh
Hank's to actually create the scoring system in the products. So consumers, customers citizens. When they buy a product, they will understand the impact on the environment. That's interesting. So right now are more of your products being labeled with this kind of reading. We are going to start with just formed a Consortium. We're going to try to establish what the criteria needs to be consistent. So,
If you imagine, what would like to get is the same? What do you buy a sunscreen? You have an FPS? Right? So, no matter which brand you buy standard number. It's a standard number. So, you know, if you're protected 45, 15 or 30, right? Regardless of the brand. So, the scoring system, hopefully, will get us to the same kind of standard. That customers will be able to understand the impact on the products are buying the Shelf. Well, talking about getting customers to understand natural and Avon like have Mobile sales, force that door-to-door. Very traditional model.
Do you see the sales force itself? As a way to educate consumers or talk to them? Do you expect that? People will understand these scores as a result of conversations with their Avon lady. Absolutely. By the way, like to think that the direct selling, you know, the traditional door-to-door is becoming one of the most current contemporary ways to transact. And why is that?
Because it's a relationship selling. A lot of companies are using social selling now, which is the same thing, but the difference on relationship selling their motto is that the Avon ladies ordinateur, Consultants. They have the relationship with the customer. So, not only they are using their social media to communicate about the products and how to use and to make a recommendation, but they know you
They know your name. They know your family. Sometimes, they know your children. So they have a relationship and it's very powerful because it brings credibility, right? So it is a ecosystem in a network that we believe will facilitate the engagement with the citizens / customers as we've been talking about. So I want to ask about the acquisition at Avon or which happened in recently in the last few years.
I doing that natural and Company became one of the biggest Beauty companies in the world. Do you find a difficulty in pursuing growth while trying to curb the emissions of your company? Are those two purposes at odds? Are its growth compatible with your Net Zero plan. We absolutely believe there are comparable. We don't think it's a choice of either or
If becomes a choice, then we're never going to be able to, really get to Net Zero or to really get to the Paris agreement. It cannot be at either, or he has to be a, you know, end, right. And again, I gave you the example of the biodiversity and how we leverage that it is a competitive advantage in the natural products. Not Torah, is by far, the market leader, in Brazil, in Latin America. It is the most recognized brand in Brazil. Not just in the Cosmetic category, but across all categories.
The reason has been so successful is because early on, you know, since not to do was founded more than 50 years ago. The founders The Visionaries founders of mathura always believed that it's not about either or but it's about how you really create sustainable development and economic growth and Innovation together.
And I think that is that has to be the goal. Right? It cannot be a choice between either you growth or you are sustainable, because if it gets to that kind of dilemma, then it becomes really hard. I want to ask you about the body shop and go back to the discussion of the packaging initiative, with the refillable stations, in my teenagers in the shopping malls of America. The Body Shop was a very can still smell the smell of walking. Past one.
Have you found that the consumer behavior is changing with the ability to refill packaging? And I guess how important is that sort of voluntary decision by your consumers versus, you know, leaning on Innovation through biodegradable, packaging. So we talked about Visionaries and did not do the founders, you know, the other Visionaries and it's erotic, right? The founder of the body shop that
When she actually created a body shop, her mind was already in the same space, you know, talking about business, that, you know, they need to be a force for good, right? And any her mind when she was creating a body butter. She was actually sourcing that from communities in Ghana, right? In Africa, and understanding the, the power of the products of transforming lives, right? So,
Again, if you embrace the notion that business, you know, can and should be a force for good and still be profitable and still the light, the customers and is to provide Innovation, but actually thinking about in a more sustainable way. It is absolutely possible to do both and and and their refuse stations at the body shop. And now, you know, most of the formulas of the body shop are vegan.
Right, that is an example that we are improving the formula. We are creating better experience from, you know, from smell from, from the customer texture. And at the same time is becoming more Echo friendly. So those things are not incompatible. It drives more Innovation. It drives creativity. So the end is a win for the company as well.
Mature has been a b Corporation since 2014. And I know that recently, you've been raising money through green, Bonds, are there, what are the financial criteria on which you grade your transition to NetZero are? There? Are there ways that investors can evaluate your performance or they're near term goals that you expect to meet ya. So you'll make sure the example of the green Bond, where we put specific targets.
In terms of packaging becoming more circular reduction of emissions. And if we don't deliver on those, we're going to pay a premium on the bone. So it's the walk the talk. So if you want to really make progress here, we are saying we are going to be held accountable part of the executive compensation of the natural co-employees are based on achieving sustainability goals. It's not just the financial goals. And again, it is about the end.
You know, sustainability needs to be a central point of strategy. If it's not then it becomes a parallel conversation and and something that he actually doesn't move the needle. It's part of the strategy is part of the compensation of this active is part of our bond triggers that puts, you know, the organization moving with the One Direction and everybody's being, you know, accountable for it. So we only have a few minutes left. And we're here at cop. I know that.
Combating deforestation in the Amazon is a very Central to natural and you know, Brazilian base. Can you talk to me a bit about your view of how the negotiations over things like article 6 and carbon markets and the kind of un driven efforts to combat deforestation, how things are working and what your company's role is in those areas. Yeah, so
Preserving forest and stopping the first station. It is a key component of achieving the Paris agreement without that there is no way. It's just as simple and it's factual and data. It's compelling. There is no way that the world is going to be able to reach the one point five degree with the level of the first station that exist today. So we need not only to Halt, but actually stop and start regenerating someone. What we're ready. Lost. Terms of nature.
So nature based solution can represent about a third of what needs to happen in terms of absorb CO2 to get us to the Paris agreement. So this whole agreement on nature, we are pleased with the progress at Compton is 6 with more than a hundred country committed to stop the first station. It's a good first step. I think we needed to be even bolder.
We are, you know, pursuing stop the first station, the Amazon by 2025. I think 2030, this is too long, but it's a first step in the right direction. And have you been following the negotiations over article, 6. I know Brazil has a central role in your company's push to defend the force of Brazil. Do you Lobby the Brazilian government over policies?
Listen, the government can and should be doing more first good step in terms of participating. In this agreement on nature, to stop the first station. I think establishing a carbon market, and some standards is important. And Brazil can play a very important rule role in being a low carbon Market. If we really Embrace that,
I know your background before coming into natural. You worked at Mondelez. I just am curious, which is a harder industry to decarbonize, I guess, which means Beauty. And, and food every industry is hard. Yeah, I don't think there is anything that is easy about this, daunting task of race for NetZero.
But it's for me is how you approach things, you know, and and making sure that you have a roadmap, make sure that you're tracking, make sure that you are not just expecting that things are going to happen by 2030 or 2040. But what needs to happen next year and they are after and and then making sure that its core Central and make sure that we are holding ourselves accountable.
And but I'm optimistic. I think, you know, events like cop 26 and how much we are seeing the private sector and government really, you know, discussing this, it's encouraging Roberto. Thank you so much for being here at The Bluebird. Green Summit, really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you. Thank you, everybody.
Please, welcome to the stage Grant, F read CEO and board, director of Mars Incorporated, along with World Wildlife Fund US, president and CEO. Carter Roberts for a conversation with Meg Szabo senior editor of Bloomberg, green and sustainability events.
Everyone welcome. So excited to see people and people in person. Again, it's just wonderful to see all of your faces out there. Just a reminder. We will be taking questions from the audience. So, please feel free to submit those and we'll take those as we can. So, I think these two do, not really need an introduction, but I would love to welcome you. Both and thank you for joining me. Thank you. I just wanted to start with cop while we're here. You know, we both, we are all here for the same reasons. So, start with you, Carter. I just love To hear from you about your experience, so far at cop, what you've seen, what you're here for.
Hoping to see how that they want. You seen from the first week and what you're hoping to see, you know, this week. So I been to a lot of cops since Copenhagen and you know, they're all different. This cop is Ben. I think the headlines are going to be incremental commitments by by countries. Not as much as the world would like to see but serious incremental, commitments.
The other headline is going to be big money is shown up in the form of commitments, by financial institutions in a huge way and also the commitments by corporations to to get to Net Zero, which implies significant Investments, both in their supply chains and in their own four walls and beyond my experience being in the hallways, though is Ben.
Much more bilaterals to move things against those commitments and that reflects a pivot from Copenhagen and Paris, which were all about big commitments, not enough about action. The other two things I'd say is you're seeing the rise of nature as a fundamental part of getting after climate change and you're seeing the rise of the significance and importance and the imperative of engaging indigenous, communities, local communities and making sure they F, it from whatever Solutions are mounted.
Great Grant. Yeah, so unlike car to this is my very first cop and the reason, you know, really wanted to attend. This one was to add my voice. I think to the level of urgency that we have to have. You know, I think it's pretty clear that, you know, we're heading for best a 3-degree world right now. And really need to be at one and a half. And the reason I wanted to come stay at my personal voice, the voice of Mars. I really talked to a number of countries.
CEOs, to really get that sense of urgency and action. I think Net Zero is a bit of a free for all right now and I think we need to clear definition clear commitments and clear action coming out of cop and that's the reason I'm adding my my energy behind it. Yeah, and also you are Scottish. So it must be nice. That helps. Yeah. I thought you were gonna say. I need to lend my Scottish voice actor. Yes. Seems to flow naturally.
So that's a good question. I think, tell, you know, the message of credibility and kind of a little bit of that commitment fatigue that we're hitting right now. I think, you know, obviously there's so many different NetZero targets out there. But how are we measuring them, you know, maybe Carter start a little bit with you. Like what are your thoughts on how we can maybe overcome that Target fatigue, that we're hitting right now? Yeah. It's a great question because I think any of us who were in New York around the big Declaration of / Forest
Knows that it was a bit like a lemon meringue where there was a lot of volume and not as much substances. We should have seen. And and not much action taken, frankly against that, the world is much more. Much less sanguine, that commitments are all that matters and and the world is demanding transparency, accountability monitoring tracking and not just Voluntary commitments.
And tracking by company, but also commitments that are required and tracking and and Reporting that's acquired by Regulators by financial institutions and by their own employees and in by customers, and so all eyes are on that and and you're absolutely right grant. There is a profound need to sort out the confusion around NetZero to sort out the confusion. Asian around.
Do you pursue these in a way that has real integrity? And I think that's where the action is right now. Yeah, absolutely. And what are you, how are you working to kind of address that on your end? Yeah, and I think people are right. I think it's not so much Target. Fatigue is feeling of to hit Target fatigue. If we were hitting the targets, I think people would actually be energized. So I think we need real Clarity around the metrics and standards were in for clarity around. What is scoop? One, two, three. You so that's everything from the farm.
Right through to Consumer, we have to be taking our greenhouse gas emissions. Through our complete supply chain, and then people will lose fatigue when they see as delivering and that's why I think we need interim targets between now and 2050 to show that we're actually on the right. Trajectory over time. We can't wait until December 20 49 to produce something out of the back. We've got to start. Now, we've got to get action now and I will really committed to them. Yeah, so if I could just Dad, I think the Applause should be.
There, when companies make commitments. I think the Applause should be loud when they make progress against their commitment. And I think, you know what? I always see at these talking to companies. It's really important that we do have people making those commitments and we want to encourage them to continue to make those and work towards them and everybody has a different parts of their Journey. So I, you know, I completely agree with that.
So talking a little bit more about forests is you're talking about the forest announcement in New York moving to forests a little bit. You know, why? What are some of the work that you're doing at WWF to really address deforestation? And why is it so important? As you mentioned to really, make sure that we're taking care of our ecosystem. Yes. So, just before I talk about for us, the bottom line is, you can't solve climate change without nature. Any can't save nature without addressing climate. Change in Forest, Loom, large at the center of This, because
Deforestation and land use occupied fully 30 to 35% of all emissions in the world. Do you all know that it is also because they they perform other services, they provide source of water. The Amazon is the weather engine for Latin America, many, many other things, and so Horace. Our key deforestation, commitments, or a key part of the supply chain commitments, that companies make in the things that WWF, it started. To work on is some nature.
Positive Solutions, we just announced a partnership with HP that commit serious money to restore forests in the Atlantic Forest to Brazil to offset the paper used in the copiers, but we are also mounting large Nation. Scale initiatives called enduring Earth that expands Park, system's keeps them in to act with an ongoing Performance Based Financial mechanism that indoors overtime and Last thing I would say on far.
Is, if you don't find a way to engage local communities and Indigenous people. So they not only have a voice and how those initiatives work, but they benefit then those projects through the ups and downs, the government or not, going to last. And so that's a huge imperative. And we now incorporate that into the biggest projects that we do.
And so, obviously palm oil is a, you know, a big part of what a product that you use at Mars and you've made the commitment to make all palm oil use for your company, deforestation free. So, can you talk a little bit about that program and what you've been doing and how you're really working to address the supply chain issues. So first, I agree with you. Carter mean deforestation has to stop and we've got to get Forest positive, and I'm fortunate to lead the consumer goods, Forum Group, which is 20 key companies with New theory of change going on.
Stopping deforestation, but for Mars specifically, you know, we were buying palm oil as most people come out. First of all, is that I think the poster child for deforestation of for many people and we had about 1,500 suppliers that were buying from just like everybody else. On a commodity base is a very transactional relationship. We've actually cut that down to about 90 suppliers, who We are working very closely with.
And we actually map that with the product is coming from either with feet on the ground or satellite and were mapping monitoring and managing that very closely. So we're very confident. We've got palm oil which is deforestation free. Yeah, that's amazing. And how when what are some of the criteria that you used when choosing which of these pliers that you've stuck with out of those out of that. Number? Yemaja is fairly straightforward as it starts with a coalition of the Willing.
Now who's really sees the challenge the same as who's prepared to really transform the supply chain because this is not not easy. We're talking about transformation of your supply chain and just to put that in perspective. So we're probably one of the few companies where our head of sustainability is already also had a procurement and so you go in there not only with our knowledge of what needs to be done from a sustainability perspective, but also with Some of the financial.
Like power to help drive those changes. So we're looking for suppliers who have the same inspiration. Same aspiration as ourself. We want to really make a difference. Yeah. And Carter, just from your perspective. What are some of the ways that we can incentivize these? These suppliers a little bit? Yeah. Well, first of all, the the signals from buyers and companies like Mars matter a lot, whether it's Mars or Walmart. When you Are in the buyers room and you're negotiating.
It's not just about price. It's also about the quality and and and what was behind the production of those raw materials, but on the ground, in terms of incentives, what matters a lot is that they get a fair price for what they're producing. It also matters a lot that there are Financial mechanisms that help them make that transition. Mars is one of the pioneers of what we call long-term contracts.
That provide enough Assurance for producers that they can make the transition particularly and planting trees that sometimes take 10 years to to achieve their full productivity and providing that kind of assurance throughout. But the last thing I would say is is this it is not enough to just have Market signals. It's not enough to just have long-term contracts. You also need governance.
Needy governments that are going to put in place on a jurisdictional level the right kind of laws and enforce them so that the good actors flourish and the Bad actors have to change because what you don't want to do is just have good actors working with good actors in The Bad actors. What we know is they have a disproportionate impact on ecosystems.
So you there is no, it's inescapable. You need strong regulations and enforcement by governments. So,
You both have been working while you're both on stage together. You have been working together. A lot of these supply chain issues. I know that you recently launched the renewable thermal collaborative. So tell me a little bit about that partnership. Maybe, I don't know if you want to start with you Carter and we could hand it over to Grant and how you've been working together. So one thing I've learned in all of our work with companies is beware of generalizing about companies. They're all different.
They all have different ownership structures. They all had different boards. They all have different cultures are work. With Mars, has been fantastic from top to bottom from the board, all the way down to every employee. And it's has been a long-standing partnership bars. Historically was very quiet. In fact, until I came along and I mean, very quiet and very private and only more recently as come out. With the kind of commitments in the
That they made, we've worked with them on sustainable Seafood, which is a big part of their pet care business. We've worked with them a lot on renewable electricity and they were one of the founding partners of the renewable energy buyers Alliance, which we help create along with many other ngos, which is basically a trade Association of the biggest buyers of renewable energy and and the United States.
Who use their purchasing power and their leverage of being able to either place a plant in a state or not. With all the jobs that creates and use that to move the state toward better policies that enable you to scale up and who are renewable energy. We've now Mars came to us and said we still have this problem with the heat we use in our production and that led us to create the renewable renewable. Thermal collaborative.
Which aims to do the same and in the United States, renewable thermal energy is a third of the problem in the energy sector. And its really looking forward to progress being made on that. Great. And
And what did, how has it helped you, you know, really meet your sustainability goals at Mars working with WWF. Yeah. So from our perspective, it probably sounds like it's quite an idyllic relationship, but I can tell you the very challenging and that's good because we have some gargantuan issues to solve and we need Candor. We need knowledge. We need capability. We can't do this alone. And, you know, we recognize fairly early on. That we need.
Operation to solve climate change as well. As you know, some of the things that car to just mention whether it's government ngos, Etc. So in our relationship, they set a very high standard on so Marine Stewardship, what do we need to do to really have a sustainable FISH program which is important to us. So I think it's a really unique combination of telling you things that you sometimes, don't really want to hear and I think you've been very candid and that we appreciate that.
Challenging but also I think is a little different and I would encourage other groups to do. This is also provide support knowledge and a helping hand along the way because I think people are inspired when these you know, what you did that. Well, here's what we need from you and I think it's that combination of direct candid feedback with the support when sometimes everybody gets a little petite. Yeah, and I think that's what we've managed to keep it each other driving forward and you some, some of the new areas. As you just heard about. Yeah. Yeah, we are irascible and
And I and, and grants, right? That's what companies expect from us. And frankly, our brand Association does not matter. If we become a shell, it matters because we Challenge and we said hi, science-based, standards and then challenged companies to honor and deliver on them. But feel free to ease up on that occasionally. We are almost out of time, unfortunately, so I did want to end with one important question, which is, just how do we Obviously, we need employees. We
Communities. We need the consumers to start really driving some of this change. So, how do you work on both of your ends? To really try to, you know, engage with them and figure out how to move the needle on their practices, in their, their beliefs? I'll start with you, Carter.
Thanks. So I think we all know that all the work with companies on Supply chains and the rest helps make a huge dent in emissions, particularly as it relates to food, but I but it would be a lie to say that is the whole solution, the other half of the equation is what consumers by what they demand, and the choices they make.
And so we are very much determined to make consumers aware of the consequences of the choices. They make what while pulling up short? In more generally of telling consumers exactly what to eat? Because that's a very personal choice of making sure. They know the consequences of what they eat and making that clear.
I think it is for companies with large Brands like Mars the to use your brand and your marketing prowess to send those signals. Engage consumers is super important. We've worked with Proctor and Gamble and doing that to educate consumers that cold water. Detergent is, in fact, just as good as hot water wash cycles and so that their behavior shifts.
But the other thing to me is about engaging, your employees and employees, increasingly. Don't just want to make money. They want to be on the side of solving the world's problems and and really listening to your employees responding to them and concocting solutions with them is profoundly important and we're seeing more and more companies do that, too.
They are reiterate much of that. So it starts with your associate base. We employees, we call the sources. We have a hundred and thirty-five thousand of them and the sense of purpose in the world. We want, tomorrow starts with how we do business today is really a rallying cry for all of our resources and I think is all directed.
In the same direction. Similarly, you know, we're very rare in that or top management all have long terms Ascent incentives, which are equivalent not only on our financials, but on what we're doing for society, that's very unusual equally weighted. And then I think taking out to the consumers and you've seen recently for Mars bar, which I think is Iconic infection. We brand in the UK, I grew up on that and you know, we've said, we're going to be
As NetZero on Mars bar by January 1st 2023. And that's a way to start communicating with consumers. Start that interaction and is, but it's going to take a lot. I think, lots of experimentation in store with Brands, keep the communication going simplify the communication, because it's just so complex for consumers out there. And last but not least everybody in this room. The fact that you are here. You're bringing your voice to this important issue. And spreading that through your contacts, you put out.
Gather, we will get change. Great. Thank you both so much for your time. Carter Roberts, Grant read. Thank you all so much for listening.
One of our missions here. Jail L is to reduce climate impact, we're working with turn time Technologies to transform the real estate, ecosystem. Turn Tides. Long-term mission is to replace all the motors in the world with optimal motor. Systems Motors consume three or four times more energy than lighting and today about half of that gets wasted. If we don't solve this problem, we're not going to be able to get to a carbon-free future. The only way to make building smarter healthier is through technology, which will drive more sustainability.
Please welcome to the stage guy Granger Global head of sustainability services and ESG at jll in conversation with Bloomberg green, general manager, Lauren keel.
Guy. When we think of the things that grab headlines and attention around trying to transition, again, get more carbon out of the atmosphere. We hear so much about things like electric vehicles, right? We hear about solar panels wind turbines. We don't hear as much about buildings, but I'm excited to be talking with you today about buildings in the built environment because there is such a major impact that you're able to have in this space.
Tell us why buildings are so fundamental to this transition. Yes, interesting out anything is recognized as an industry necessarily that's got a major part to play but I'm pleased this year. There is a cities and built environment day on Thursday at cop for the first time and I think Mary said earlier. Yeah, actually 66 percent of the carbon emissions in Glasgow City Centre are created by buildings. So the problem staring Us in the face.
That's the same percentage as New York as well actually, so we've got a major job particularly in the global North to retrofit and repurpose these buildings. When you add it all up. That's about 5% of our building stock that needs to be repurposed every year for the next 30 years. And just looking at Glasgow City Centre. You've been walking around the business district here, full of offices.
There are only two NetZero carbon buildings in the central sort of office District here in Glasgow. And that just shows the task ahead that we've got to really, really upgrade City centers and make them zero carbon or preferably positive carbon going forward. It is a huge task and breakdown for are some of the things that can be done on this transition. What are the actual actions that can be taken from these buildings?
Well, I think you've gotta split out into the operational carbon, which is the energy to run these buildings, right? That's what's creating a lot of this during the life cycle of a building. So we have to reduce that. We have to reduce the energy in buildings and it's really interesting to see the pattern as people return to work places. Actually. A lot of people are businesses are turning the energy up. We're on a recycle are more. We want clean air in the buildings. So really got a to do that. You have to embed the building with smart technology. G.
And I really tracks the utilization of the building. You don't want to heat and cool the building at the same time. You'll be surprised. How many do that. You also want Tilly, commercial buildings at weekends to be running off less energy. So it's a huge, huge task around embedding technology to really run these buildings very smartly and drive down the energy and use, but then you've got the embodied carbon.
Fifty percent of the world's natural resources are used to go into construction cement after water is the most used sort of mass in the world and we really have to look at that at the moment. None of the corporate pledges out there really do include embodied carbon. So when we're looking at in the global North retrofitting, and all of the sort of fit-outs that we're doing around the world, let's use different resources. Let's Reuse more. Let's repurpose more Patagonia. We're
About that earlier. And I think the end of life cycle is really, really important for building materials. Not just sort of your clothing materials as well use me as part of what you do, you're working with the people who are occupying, these buildings. You're working with city city leaders, like the mayor you mentioned earlier. How are you thinking about Partnerships in this space? How is jll working with others to make sure that this is something that can be done as a group.
Yeah, well, it's really important and we've heard a lot today about systemic change. It's not just about individuals or individual businesses, do it doing this and we manage five billion square feet around the world of buildings real estate, whether it's for the big corporates like HSBC, or whether it's for the big Real Estate Investors, so there really are partners and we have to go very quickly.
So that we can walk the walk and we can decarbonise these real estate facilities. So they're extremely important. And then we work with government, both national and local really, around the regulations, and particularly cities. Some are going much faster with divulge power. New Yorkers got extremely tough regulations around buildings, but many cities don't have that devolved power. So we really have to work with those three stakeholders. The government's National local the in Jester's where 95% of their footprint really is and those
Real assets and the occupiers and they've all got to come together and have real toes equity in the upside of decarbonizing the buildings. And when you add all that up, it's a huge task ahead of us. You know, when you just look at London, we have to retro retro fit, 15,000, workplaces or Office Buildings every year for the next 30 Years and over a hundred thousand homes a year. That's not only a lot of buildings to retrofit. It's a lot of skills needed and We're trying to bring all of those stakeholders through.
Une right from setting the strategy retrofitting and then ultimately operating them really efficiently, right? Well, you've set up for us about retrofitting. We're going to talk about even more in the next conversation. So guy. Thank you so much for joining me and please join me in thanking guy and welcoming our next panel, okay.
Great. So as I tease we're going to be talking in more detail about how this actually comes to life. We've got some real life examples with us on the stage today, but Christina, I want to start with you. The UK green Business Council has worked buildings, Council has worked on doing a built environment. Virtual virtual Pavilion for cop 26. So explain to us. What is what is a virtual Pavilion and why are you doing it here now? Yes.
I think one of the big barriers for taking climate action is inclusivity and getting people, curious and inspired of things that are actually happening, instead of still continuing to explain the problem and explain. I think we're done with that. So on account of cop, 26, last June, 20 21, we launched a big call to action. The UK Green Building Council. Let this project, there's over a hundred Partners involved, including the world Green Building Council, and we managed to get 17. An Exemplar projects in a.
Civilian, so it's called the build better. Now, virtual Pavilion for cop 26. I'll share the website in a bit, but it was really so interesting to see the project that are right now, tackling the climate crisis, but also the biodiversity crisis looming, and really showcasing that. As we go into cities regions and built environment. They happening this Thursday, our cop 26 in the Blue Zone. There is actually Lee.
Hope there is actually Solutions active. It can be scaled up. And there is professionals that are living with a purpose, not only just running their businesses. So I think it's really inspiring in a moment where we need to understand that the built environment, because of its current unsustainability characteristics, is a big problem to The Climate crisis over 40, almost 40% of energy-related. Carbon Greenhouse emissions comes from the building from building. Yes.
And I'm I think we're all sick of saying that stat, and we need just to Showcase a vision of the possible. Get people on a road to Net Zero, but also bringing the social component on board of inclusivity and showcasing that this is happening around the world from favelas in Brazil, tackling energy poverty to affordable, homes. In New Zealand to great things happening here in the UK around other geographies asia-pacific and it's the power of the world UBC network of over. D2 Green, Building council's.
In different geography saying that, scaled this up. We want the world to listen and we want you to get inspired. I promised we were going to show some real life examples about how you actually bring these things to life. So Chris, I'm going to start with you because we're giving you the home field advantage. Your project is about 3 kilometers down the road from where we sit right now in Glasgow. So tell us about the retrofit of 107 injury Road.
I'm so I'm hoping it'll appear on the screen behind us. It's a it's a passive house level retrofit of a stone tenement in Glasgow. We have 75 Stone tournaments, in Glasgow. So we have a lot of work to do on those that but it's called NF. It it's pacifiers level. So we will reduce the carbon emissions in that building by roughly 90%.
And that obviously has its Advantage for carbon, but it also has a significant Advantage for quality or for people who are going to be living there. So the people living here, this is social housing. So they will have the least money over the people that are living in Glasgow and the fewest options, really. So being able to make that give them that benefit, I think is a really big thing for us as architects.
There's that there's the aspect of Health. We know that passive houses are Comfort standard, so we can make it. We know that it won't overheat. We know that it won't be too cold. We know that we're managing moisture. So you won't get mold and condensation or Windows and things like that. But we're also taking out a lot of the chemicals that are normally put into modern buildings. So we're dealing with health.
In the long term for the people. And lastly I would say there's a Heritage aspect to this one of the issues which we come across as Architects is when we try to make buildings energy efficient. We risk damaging their Heritage. So we've worked quite closely here to make sure that the outside of the building and the stonework and the fabric of the building is protected as well as making it energy efficient.
I know this is a small image behind us. I'm not sure everybody can read it but it goes into a lot of the details on things like the insulation that you guys have changed and some of it. Some of the you know, the nitty-gritty about what you actually change as part of this project. So can you tell us about one thing that you think has a very dramatic impact? What's one thing that maybe people people don't think about what the insulation is like, but actually that has a huge impact.
Probably the main thing that we do as passive as Architects is not so much saying that there's going to be lots of insulation but making sure the installation meets. So there are lots of annoying details, where you do the easy bit. There you do the easy bit there, but you missed that bit and it made the analogy. I use as holes in the bucket where we're closing off the holes in the bucket, but until we get down to no holes.
We're not actually fixing the problem. So a lot of our time is spent on that and I would say that almost all of the energy we're saving is not because we're using Innovative things. We're just doing normal things that everybody's familiar with what we're doing them better really, that's great. We have a totally different example with our other host, country of Italy, the Milan Innovation District or mind, tell us about this. First of all, tell us about this and then I have a follow-up question about the way you describe that. All right. Well, we're sitting at the other end of Christmas Spectrum to be honest because A hundred actor, real estate and regeneration in the
Best of Milan. This is where Expo 2015 took place. So huge in material Legacy, but also an important material Legacy made of canal made of road infrastructure. That is already. There. We are land. Leases are typically doing this these projects globally, but it really set ourself bull Target of meeting the challenges that Christina was saying, you know, how are we going to provide a sustainable hundred percent sustainable, and decarbonized precinct for the People that will leave their overtime.
Is important. We are used to work on a 10 to 15 years or Aizen. So, you know, the most of the promises, and the discussions that are happening here at cop are actually aligned to our arise. And we need to make strategic decisions. Now to see the fruits and to see the results in the next time. 15 years. I think one of the main strategic decision we made was to power all the site and get the energy aside completely from renewable sources.
These meant making bold decision to implement a heating and cooling system that nurtures on the water on the side and notice on the solar panel of the buildings and the buys the energy in a way that is still required only from from from Greenhouse sources. Other aspects are related to how we are making the building more future proof. For example, embodying the carbon through using Timber Technologies or reviewing. The way the Mobility Works on side, for example, I'll decoupling the parkings from the building. Seems like, you know.
Normal thing to do. It's not normal. When you, when you start looking at the practicalities of it. So, you know, energy and body carbon of building and Mobility. Are we believe the three key elements that we are looking to decarbonize in order to provide a better solution, more interesting, Urban precinct for the people that that will live there.
Is Chris was talking about the retrofitting Glasgow? He kept mentioning about the people, the people who are going to live in these homes, right? And that's something that struck me as well. As I was reading about mind, how you all describe this project. You talked a lot about the people, the people who are going to live there or work there be around there and I would love for you to talk about a unique part of your neighborhood. And one of one of your neighbors, which is the prison that's right next to next, to mine. So how you built a relationship with them? Yeah. It's a bridge that were very, very, very close and very proud of because normally, you know, for a real estate. Hopper having a prison next door is typically.
Not just, maybe not a disaster, but definitely a question mark, you know, for an investor. And we decided to flip the script and actually open the gates of our prison and open, to some extent, the gates to the prison. We, we were lucky enough to have a prison Institute. That was very Progressive, very open. And we started developing a relation first with the Minister of Justice and then down to the directors of the prison that maybe look at three key key areas. The first is to get people that Serve in prison to spend time with us at work and
For example, in our accounting department. There are people that are currently serving in prison, that works both ways. It works for them. And you also for our staff to start seeing that, you know, inmates and people serving in prison are just people like us and can do work like everyone else, everyone else does, and then we have the food component. Our catering is served, is offer by a restaurant that is, is provided by prison inmates. And also, we're spending our community, a hundred percent of our staff spent half a day or probably even more. A day in the, in this year.
Spending time in prison and understanding what is real life means for them and doing renovation work within within the side. So overall, try and flip the script of this, typical element is exciting and it's something to bring also bit of fun into into the topic of sustainability and regeneration and Christina. I know you guys recently, put out a report around these same issues of thinking, about the social components. Tell us more about that. Yes. Last Thursday at the Blue Zone at cup 26. We launched a Art called beyond the business case.
Actually flipping the conversation around around. Why developers why the built environment industry should go through to sustainability and deep climate action. And in this report, we put social value open front front front and center because yes, we can demonstrate the financial the economic business case and but sometimes get people get hung up there the extra cost of the beginning and come on.
If we look at putting people first and bringing social value with the idea that cost is an investment that you cannot really not afford not to invest in a sustainable built environment when you look at this perspective and then actually sustainability becomes not becomes good business because it's not about it just the acid. It's about people in communities, right? And the report has case studies that actually speak to the, to the Feel better. Now, virtual Pavilion,
Because it's the other side of. Okay, what's the examples? What's a world-class arguments happening? What are the trends going through? Of course, even the value of natural Capital, right? It's also a value proposition. Now how to regenerate a ecosystem, through the work we do but also going deep going. Deep in what has to be happening now for us to truly develop places that are good for our health, for our children for sustainability.
So it was really exciting because it kind of married up with all of this initiatives with been launching in this huge campaign at Kauffman E6 where there's over a hundred events around the built environment. And I think that's her first even cop21 was really small on buildings and built environment. So there's a, I feel the momentum and I hope people Embrace here. The idea of creating social value through the build environment, all of the rest will fall into place.
Chris, I saw that that about one in five homes, in Scotland could be defined as a tenement, which is the type of building that you guys repeated. Yes. So this is, this is a huge Challenge and the, the mayor of Bristol earlier was talking about the challenges of retrofitting, not just from the financing and go like Christina talking about, but also from skills, do we have the skills needed to have people be able to do this? Have you experienced that, or are you seeing in a different way?
I don't, I think it's overplayed that if I'm honest because all of the environmental buildings, we've done all of the passivhaus buildings, The Specialist buildings have been done by Builders who hadn't done one before, they've all been done like that. So it seems to me that it is entirely possible for people who aren't necessarily specifically trained to up their game.
My experience has been that the majority of people that I'm working with a capable of doing what we're asking them. So yes, there needs to be more training but I would suggest that that is also for the Architects for the designers, for the people, making the Strategic decisions. The majority of people coming along and doing the work in my experience perfectly capable of doing it actually already.
So that what do you see the biggest challenges for retrofitting? Is it, is it good? You said earlier in the stage with the Architects and with the design, it's the financing. The political choice is the number one thing because yes, because I'm obviously cost, but it doesn't take long to look across at the different things that we spend money on and to come to the conclusion that it's really just about choice.
These things are quite expensive, but the so a lots of other things which don't have nearly as many co-benefits to people. So the choice is Simple Choice really politically and financially 7oq talk is about how you manage this as a public-private partnership because you guys have built something that again brings in. So many different communities. It does bring in the political angle.
So the political bull eagle and the public angle is fundamental. We are as mind, the largest public, private partnership in real estate in Italy and as a as an investor. Initially, as lindley's, we really looked at that as a source of value. Because it stabilizes the political environment. It guarantees a safe Pipeline on which to deploy First Capital and then design and then execution and management.
And essentially provides with a good sounding board also to implement the deploy technologies. That would not be applicable as we're back in. Find an applicable legislative framework in mind to be developed examples. Drums, example, closing the road for automated Vehicles. That's something that we can join my new struggle to do to do a swear. So I think this political and public private interplay is is fundamental also in the back. Crap of the large you funding mechanism. That is dead.
Coming together, in the next five years, to really show that these two components can work together and can drive value together. There's a lot of learning there. I'd love to hear from both of you. Just give us an example of how people in this audience. We're all in a building. We all live in buildings, right? We are all experiencing the built environment. What's one thing that you think is going to change coming from your projects or coming from the the things that you're seeing in the space? What's going to change about the built environment for us in the next couple of years? It's something small. All like the installation that you mentioned Chris or is there some big way we're going?
Interact. I know what I'm saying. I 20, 30 years ago. We were all talking about insulation that was 70s and 80s and 90s and then we all got excited which is in Britain. Of course. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but certainly for us, we then all started talking about air tightness. That was the thing and that was controversial but it's certainly the way it's going in my view. The next thing will be ventilation and air quality and covid-19 some different stiffer buddies, appreciation of that, but I think we the risk we run is that we make buildings, too. Sealed up and then we don't have good air quality. We don't have good ventilation. So my guess is
That will be the next thing that we'll start seeing quite a lot of
I think the best learning of the covid pandemic is that people start using buildings differently, we firmly believe that offices will be transformed into Community hubs where you know, office workers will want to go to be recognizing the in the in the in the, in the community in which they work, residential assets will really be complemented by kindergarten co-working spaces places with with, with green area. So really very much. I don't see a big change. JH in the assets bar from the you know, the nest.
Very upscale in the, in the performance. That is, there is a must and I see that as a trend. I see a big Trend in the way people use buildings. Christine altering the same question to you. What do you think's going to change? Well, hearing them out. I think beyond beyond how we use spaces. I think we have also changed our behavior in cities. Also, what we value is good. Is that where we want to be right now, that we're allowed to go out of our no one kilometer radius it. About green spaces about community.
It is about the feeling of place, right? And the feeling of good quality of life and and paired to that. And going a little bit, on the macro level. If you see all the changes and countries announcing NetZero Ambitions committing more climate pledges into buildings in what we see in these negotiations. That means that in the future, there will be more policy signals.
For decarbonizing which means actually better buildings. So we're going to stop doing bad buildings. I think there's a good policy signal to stop the nonsense because what showcases in the Pavilion and all of these great work is that it just takes the right purpose of the right curiosity and the right values to be delivering on this. It's not rocket science. So I think
Marrying up the two scales. I think people valuing good quality of life, but also policies being more ambitious and enabling through what we're showcasing and that Pavilion that it is possible, just going for it and being more ambitious, and bold or regulations that can enable us to have a built environment that is fit for our health, for the future for sustainability. It would be, it would be nice to see. I'm hopeful
Chris, what do you think would incentivize more projects like yours to come to life?
Well, the one thing that we've worked on as Architects is to try and get exemplars to show people because in
To my experience has been when you see something and you realize it's not that scary. It's actually much much better. So I've traveled a lot as part of learning about ecological buildings and I've seen really wonderful buildings. Wonderful communities, wonderful areas, all over Britain, particularly in Europe and just come back and thought we should be doing this. We should be doing this, it's not and or it's too difficult. Chris.
It's not so inspiring people to do good things when you see them and you see how safe and reasonable, it is to live in a nice place. It's really helps. It's helped me and I'm hoping it will help other people and Stefano, what would you say to other Architects? Other people coming like Chris to come. See what, you know, what's a big takeaway from mind?
Well, the big takeaway from mind is he can do things differently all the way from, you know, getting the right investors to get the right internal set of designers to the delivery. I think the best incentives that we can give to the industry is to give a clear framework, whereby sustainability and decarbonization is actually measured because that will help Drive investment and and drive value and drive partnership with the supply chain in with the, with the tenants and with the people that will use the values. Buildings, this is I believe the best incentive that can be done.
Clear a clear standardization in. Christina, last question for you. What do you hope comes from cop? 26 for the built environment? Okay, so I'm hopeful that we will keep the topic up high in the agenda, going into next year's a cop in Egypt in the global South, there will also be a conversation about resiliency.
And adaptation and the record responsibility of these great projects on how can we help other regions of the world that are going to be urbanizing at a high rate of avoid locking in bad buildings that we have done also in other geographies and of course that we will follow through through those pledges on acting at buildings to actually help enable performance. Addressing the value chains going into into the built environment that businesses At this cop, have committed big-time into the race to zero.
But then trickling that down into action into transparency into life cycle assessment into into into a conversation about what? What is happening already and scaling it up. I think that is we're past explaining its part of the problem. It's about continuing to inspire everyone to be on the path to do this because it's common sense. It's just Good, good. And
In code, architecture, good, urban planning. And from a policy perspective. It makes sense that our money from taxpayers goes into good projects, please join me in thanking Chris Stefano and Christina.
Please welcome to the stage Bloomberg. Green reporter, Akshay trotty.
If you've been here at cop 26 for any amount of time, you've probably heard the mention of methane.
Week, we got a pledge, the global methane pledge, which the US and the EU put together with a hundred countries pledging that they would cut emissions by about 30% by 2030, just before coming into cop, 26 G20 for the first time. The 20 countries that account for about 80 percent of global emissions.
Said that they recognize methane is a problem and that they will do something about it. Now.
Why are we suddenly talking about methane? Let's look at the numbers.
This might be a familiar chart to some of you. It's going back all the way 800,000 years.
Get a chart. That is about carbon dioxide. That's what it's going to look like largely remaining within within a certain.
Mount and then suddenly shooting up, as we start using fossil fuels, methane has done the same, but there's a difference. The amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is about 50% higher than the 800,000 year average that we've had methane. On. The other hand is a hundred and fifty percent higher.
And we care about methane because in the short term it has a huge warming impact in the first 20 years of its life methane traps about 80 times as much heat for the same amount of carbon dioxide that's released in the atmosphere. Even a hundred years down. The amount of methane heat is about 30 times as much as carbon dioxide.
Now, notice carefully here.
Sighs of methane is decreasing as time goes out and that's probably the good news, which is methane degrades much more quickly in the atmosphere than carbon dioxide does. And that's what we can use to our advantage. This is a chart, showing temperature, starting in 2020 and letting the Croc run on the black line as as if we are not doing very much beyond what his business as usual.
Temperatures would rise 1 degree celsius by about 2050. If we meet the global methane pledge. They will be about point two degrees Celsius lower. Now just for context we are at one point, one degree Celsius of warming and we want to stop warming by 1.5 degrees Celsius. So that point four degrees Celsius is a very small window in which if methane allows us a point two degree celsius. Head Start, that's amazing.
This is probably the scariest chart I've seen as a climate journalist. It was tucked in the ipcc report that was published in August this year. Now. Let's get the bottom two parts out of the way, First, Solar and Volcanic drivers. This is telling you what are the different variables that contribute to warming on the planet.
Climate skeptic, talking points have been well, climate change has always happened and it's just nature, that's running its course, but we know that's not the case. Because neither solar radiation not nor volcanic emissions have been able to either cool down or warm up the planet and any other internal variable that we can track and have been tracking. For decades does not contribute.
Now, the scary part of this is the second bar, which says all the greenhouse gases that we have emitted are actually enough to already heat the planet by 1.5 degrees Celsius. And yet The observed warming is only one point one. That's because ironically, the same fossil fuels that we use to put out, greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, also produce particulate matter pollution or aerosols, which have a cooling impact because they produce This, this
A layer in the upper atmosphere that reflects sunlight, as we get to NetZero. We are going to have to cut fossil fuel emissions, which means we will cut air pollution. That's great for health, but we will get some short-term warming in the process and using methane. As a as a reduction tool. At the same time, as you're cutting fossil fuel emissions can help us counteract that short-term warming that makes methane. Another reason why we should be acting on it. So, how do we do it? Well, let's look at the sources.
There are four major sources, right? Livestock, which is mostly growing cows oil and gas and coal marked in Orange. Waste, which is
Coming both from landfill and with wastewater treatment and rice, which is when it's produced It produced methane during the production process. Now, what the chart shows is the dark bar is where we have both the technology and the economics behind us to be able to cut methane, which is to say, it's actually profitable for almost 50% of all emissions that come from oil and gas to be cut profitably today.
And more and more oil and gas companies aren't able to get away with it. We now have eyes in the skies satellite monitoring, which can tell us where exactly a leak has come from around the globe. Then we can send people on the ground with specialized cameras to be able to turn an invisible gas visible. And then
Feel those leaks essentially with sophisticated Plumbing.
An oil and gas companies are realizing that they are being watched. And so when we as reporters, you will have seen the bloom a green magazine, which has methane as its theme for this issue. When we as report is go and talk to oil and gas companies some say yes, there's a leak. We are going to fix it others say well those leaks are within legal boundaries.
And so we have to as a society, as a journalist hold, these companies accountable if you want to cut emissions and that's crucial because the other part of methane emissions is very hard to cut. So livestock. We don't actually yet have technologies that can be scaled up to be able to reduce emissions. This is a start-up based in the UK called soap, which is building. As you can see, maybe slightly masks for cows and about 90 percent of emissions that come from Um, cows in form of methane are actually bird.
And so you build these masks to be able to trap some of those methane and reduce those emissions but this is all very early stage and that's why cutting emissions from the oil and gas sector is even more important. So let's come back to cop 26. We got the global methane pledge, which said that we'll be able to cut emissions by about 30% by 2030 and that could really help us.
Give the time that we need to be able to keep 1.5 degrees Celsius alive, but the global methane pledge is actually weaker than it ought to be scientists. Told us that we need to cut emissions for methane, 45 percent by 2030. The target for the global methane pledge is only 30%. It also doesn't have the biggest emitters India, Russia China, haven't signed up.
And it's a global Collective pledge, which means some countries have signed up and can get away with doing nothing While others have to do more. And so,
This is where the change needs to happen, where we've got these pledges and now we need to get into implementation, cutting methane emissions. Could be the quickest solution that we can use to try and address climate change. Thank you.
I don't stand a chance. It's something that you're born into.
And I just don't belong here.
Welcome to the stage US. Special presidential Envoy for climate change. John Kerry for a conversation with Bloomberg. Editor-in-chief, John Mitchell. Thwaite.
Sorry, thank you. Very nice to see you all. Thank you. John Kerry for being here. The US Special presidential Envoy for climate. But I think the real point about John Kerry is, is long involvement in all this, I think you've attended Rio as a senator. I did many years ago, back in 1992. You played a massive role in the Paris agreement. Not least by kind of brokering, the joint us China deal just the year before. So let's start with cop and what's happening. Especially the kind of final text, you've had all these.
Attempts to change things. You set a very good test. I think for what would be success. You said, look, we must get the world back on a pathway to 1.5 degrees. Keep 1.5 alive. Got the meeting deal. We've got all these other things, you look at the pledges and even if you believe every single one of them, we're still somewhat possibly closer to two degrees and 1.5 and I suppose my question for you is what do you actually want to see in that final text? That would make you happy about getting to that one point five.
I don't know if your trillion dollars and trillion times. We've got people here, who can I just say first of all, when a great setting took the CIA to find it for me. I was quite an exercise. I walked in here. I feel like James Bond and I'm looking, I'm looking for Q. I want my Aston Martin. He's at the back.
Back there. It's what a great setting spectacular. So let me that's a great question, John and thank you. It's a privilege to be here. Thank you all great to share some thoughts with you about what is happening here, which I think is building into the potential of very significant.
When we did Paris, we had a hundred ninety five countries signed up to something that was, you know, every country defining its own plan. That's the best. You could get out of everybody. And the 1.5 degrees was almost an afterthought to the well below 2 degrees. Because the
In States and vulnerable countries. Felt they hadn't been heard and not they hadn't listened to. So in the last week. We put together the 1.5 and that was a great coalescing feature. In the end in the sort of the day. No, mo, you know, the finishing moves, there is a trained, by the way, I noticed. How's the infrastructure here? This is hold up.
So so Paris and I said it at the plenary at the afterwards because, you know, I didn't think we should overdo it. And and what I said was, you know, we're not guaranteeing our citizens that were going to keep the Earth's temperature two degrees. What we're doing is sending a signal to the marketplace.
Is that a hundred ninety five countries are all going to move in the same direction at the same time. And that's the biggest Market in the world. By the way, it's four and a half billion to 5 billion users today, already double-digit trillions of dollars in market energy and transportation and Industry and so forth. And
The market signal really was going to affect the allocation of capital, and that was the theory and that will change things. And we have this process in Paris, where we get together afterwards and we measure our ambition. Well, that's exactly what's happened in the first two years. After Paris, about three hundred fifty eight billion dollars. Went to Alternative renewable. Sustainable energy investment.
And we were moving in the right direction until this.
Without science without economic rationale without anything, except the kind of vindictive, Mischief, pull down, the Paris agreement, and it hurt, and it's hurt the United States reputation lie for three or four years. So, President Biden has been determined to come back and to reassert ourselves. Not because it's politically something that you choose to do. But because math mathematics physics,
Science tells us this is what we have to do and I mean have to do so. Mother nature is played this extraordinary role in.
Evening out us shaking us really into common sense and Glasgow is the test of that. Really. So what I see happening after years of these meetings. I mean I was as you said, first cop and the creation of the cop was Rio in 1992 and before that 1990 1988, when we were in the Senate and Al Gore and I and our whole group of senators were
Told by Jim Henson, this is happening. So, this is a long journey and now is the test of whether we can really get there.
You we are told that we we were told by the ipcc and 2018. You guys aren't getting the job done. You have 12 years within, which to get the job done. Make the decisions that not that you'll get the whole thing finished. But you have to make the key decisions and begin to implement on them to avoid the worst consequences of climate crisis.
So, three years later. Now, nine years, we have to do that. That's what makes Glasgow so important. Now you happy with what has been achieved. I think we will. Do you want to see something extra in that final text? Well, I mean if if I want to deal with a wish list, yeah. Sure. I'd love to see something extra but we have to deal with reality. We have to deal with the way things move and happened in public affairs, particularly.
In the extraordinarily complicated, life of international diplomacy and multilateralism with a hundred night, almost 200 countries and and they're different. They have different challenges. Some of them have grown up on coal because that was all that was available and that's all anybody could have new back then and they built 40 year assets which are funded and have investors who care about return on investment. And There's a whole, there's a huge Network.
You know, John there are many buddy. So the issue is, how do you move all of that? I think we're moving it, rather remarkably right now. I think this cop is already different and better than any cop I've ever been to. There is a greater sense of urgency, a greater sense of focus, a greater sense of possibilities. Then I've ever felt coalescing before. Now there are still some issues.
There's loss and damage. There's adaptation, there's resilience. There's Finance. There's the issue of ambition, which is perhaps one, perhaps the single most important because if you don't have enough ambition, you're just going to be feeding the trough of a Temptation. So there's got to be a balance here. Yes, we have to adapt, but the single most important thing is to avoid two point seven degrees, three degrees for degrees. And if everybody that was wondering, if everybody.
If everybody, everybody even did what they said, they're going to do in Paris. We were still heading 2, over 3 degrees folks. So that's why this is so critical. This is the checkpoint that Paris envisioned. We come five years later. It's actually six because of covid. This is the measurement of whether or not we correct and I see Corrections beginning to take place. You think it's enough. I mean, you just mentioned that according to the official Burrs on the national determined.
Contributions, we're still at two point seven degrees on what that's going. It may come down a bit. There's an announcement today. But do you think one of the things that people are talking about here is the need to call Nations back on an annual basis? Come back next year and measure the ndc's. Crank it up again. Would you support that? Well, we come back there Starin no matter what. Because we have cut 27, and then cop20 - it but actually measuring do not. Let me just finish. Thought it would be
I think Insanity not to measure every year. We should we're going to be measuring every day. By the way. We now have satellite systems and they're growing in number Copernicus and trays, and so forth that have the ability on a daily basis to measure the carbon footprint of the supply chain of a large corporation or to measure the entire output of a country or the government buildings. We can pinpoint, we have a Accuracy, may have seen.
Terrific story. I'm sorry mentioned but the Washington Post is was a good story, had a terrific story. You saw it with the methane pinpointed in Russia. And the whole map of methane Etc and methane. As we all know is responsible for 50% of the warming of the earth. It's .5 degrees of 1.1. Now or so where we've warmed to
And if we can do the methane pledge, which President, Biden put forward here, hundred and eight countries have come forward to join the methane pledge. And as fatty b-roll told us the other day, if we can achieve the methane pledge. It is the equivalent of taking all the cars of the world. All the trucks of the world, all the ships of the world, all the airplanes of the world and taking them to 0-2 emissions. That's extraordinary.
And you have countries suddenly focused on me, you know, as well as I do that. The pledge is for to have that 30 percent 30 percent reduction by 2030, but not but it's not individual country countries saying they will cut by x amount, which is the difference between that and the end. That is accurate. It is the difference and you also haven't got China or Russia in it. Well, let's see what happens in the next days. Maybe we can work it and get you you Enthusiast. Do you think you might be able to pull China into the meeting? Well? R working at it. I was up till 3:00 in the morning yesterday.
It was his today, it started yesterday and we were up to 2:30 in the morning, the night before that working with a number of different countries, and I'm hopeful I'm just revisit Pacific. China problem, isn't it? They are the biggest emitter of greenhouse gases. Obviously, that doesn't take into account, the historical things that they always build up their not
I haven't actually done anything here other than commit to not watching out for yourself. Not not, not to not financing coal outside China, I urge you to go read their plan. It's the 1 plus n plan and Irish would read it because and I spent a lot of time reading it in the last couple days. It actually calls it. It says, they will do a lot, is it? Enough note, but will they do a lot?
Yes, the talking about strictly, limiting coal, the talking about getting rid of bulk, coal usage. They're talking about phasing down after a certain point and China has 79 percent of all of its energy comes from coal. Yeah, that's the way they built a less developed country and I can remember being in Shanghai and early 1990s standing on the bond looking out at the Padang and there were a couple of skyscrapers going up with with rickety bamboo lashed. Scaffolding.
And two. And then I came back 10 years later and there was another Hong Kong staring you in the face, where they'd been rice paddies. That was China's had this incredible journey. It's been fueled by coal. I've also set on the peidong and you can see the barge is Laden with coal timing down that river. China has to move away from coal and they are laying out a plan, which isn't yet enough. So what do you do about that? Well, our theory is well, let's try to work together to see if we can find the ways as Nations. Around the planet. To accelerate this we've been doing that in the last month.
We worked with Mexico two months ago. President Lopez obrador wouldn't talk about anything about oil they're going to exploit their oil Mexico was oil. That's what represented them. That was their asset. We went down there. We met with him spend time. He spent the whole day with me talking about this and in the end he signed on to an agreement where Mexico said we're going to submit a new NDC next year.
We're going to deploy geothermal. And then of course they have active volcanoes. We're going to deploy Hydro solar wind. They have incredible capacity for that in the southern part of the country. They could be a major provider of alternative resource energy to the United States to Canada. You could end on a and the this next week on the 18th.
There is a meeting of summit of the Americas with Canada the US and Mexico meeting to talk about this vision of how do we come together? So, you know, this is very different from the insults of the last four years. This is a genuine effort. But President Biden. The pull people together and to find Solutions. You think just one last thing on that final text. You think you can bring the Chinese, the Russians. These other people into into committing, say to measuring ndc's on an annual basis, or R2, adding
At least something else into the final text of what comes out of? Well. Yes. I think we have to add to the final text. But please remember cop is not defined just by the ndc's. Particularly this God. I mean we started a thing called the first mover Coalition. We have Volvo. At the table Volvo has pledged. They are going to by 10% of their steel for all their manufacture of cars will now be green. Green steal that sends a message.
The marketplace that green steel has a market as a cell, has a buyer. And so you can begin to invest with confidence and it begins to D risk. In the same way. DHL is part of this, they're going to do things with their shipping to be carbon-free. Maersk as signed up Maris has ordered eight new ships, cargo vessels carbon free and they don't exactly know which propulsion they'll use, but they're going to do it and they will do it. Huh?
Amazon has joined this first mover going. There's and so that's on the side that's not part of an in DC, but that's going to result in emissions. Reductions. You have United Airlines. As part of it. They made a commitment with respect to a sustainable aviation fuel. So we're going to try to accelerate the creation of markets, but there are a bunch of other things. There's a market demand initiative. There is a there's the forest initiative their house. Cool. Six. I mean l School six is the The other as you know, going to these last few days.
That is the way by which carbon trading theoretically could be started. Is that going to get through? I believe it will. I'm going out on the limb. I really believe it. Well, I think we can finish the rule book here. And our team is working. It's been six years. Our team is working really, really hard. And has been all year. By the way. This is not just a Glasgow effort. We've been working all year to work on the transparency issues on the accountability reporting data. Te.
All the components, the markets, the markets is a very critical component of it. I hear more and more business. Folks, talking about pricing carbon President. Biden has not yet made a decision regarding that, but there were group of senators here yesterday day before, and we had a long conversation, the is increasing discussion in the US Senate about pricing carbon everybody here. Who watches the models knows that if you, if you change her assumption in the Modeling.
Nothing gets you more reduction of warming than pricing carbon. It's a winner, Winona's greats development tax. Well, you know, today's a better way to raise money. It's a more it's you touch your tax. They have you don't have use at work looked at the makeup of the United States. Senate. This. Yes, I can see you. I can see your problem. I'm trying I'm saying in a perfect world. I'm allowed to be a willful journalist and you sadly have to deal with This.
These practicalities. But least in theory, do not see that. A carbon tax is the attention to detail that this is a complete direct. Harry Truman was a Senator and he has to sit where I began at number 99 in the United Way, Back in the corner, and I was back there with Jay Rockefeller and Al Gore, a few of us, all the newbies, go back there.
And he wrote home to his mother frequently and he wrote home to his mother saying dearest mother. I'm on the floor of the United States Senate. And I look around, I look at my colleagues and and, and I, you know, I see the ghost of clay and Webster and Calhoun and I pinch myself and I say how the hell did I get here? And then about five months later. He's writing home to his mother dearest mother again late night in the Senate. I look across the Senate. I see my colleagues, I pinch myself and I say, how the hell did they get here? So, that tells you a lot about the service it but there is a u.s.
People, I think if you know, can I I just want to share the bright side of this. We were.
Before we came to Glasgow. We're headed towards about 2.7 degrees.
Such a dear old, has done a great job in my judgment at the iaea. He's turned it into a genuine Watchdog and and motivator told me the other night. And and he's now report that I think is out publicly. You take all of what has been put on the table here in Glasgow, that is to say all the ndc's. But all the other, the forestry initiative, the deforestation Target that methane Target you add all the initiatives.
He said if the everybody does what they promised to do, we would be at one point eight degrees. Think about that folks. The notion before we came here that we could be halfway through at the potential of hitting that. Now will we hit it the key to what happens with Glasgow is going to be the follower. I'm going to turn my operation into a literally a mentoring hand-holding effort. We're going to work with Saudis. We Partnering with them on their deployment.
Green hydrogen into the desert to the solar. That will that will. That will power the electrolyzers that will produce the hydrogen that can go into pipes and go to Greece to Italy and feed Europe and Africa. So yeah, things can really happen here. There are 46 critical technologies that have been designated by the iaea, 42 of them are behind and and they're not at scale.
They are critical 50% of the reduction in emissions that we need to get will come from technologies that are not yet at scale. But President Biden just 130 billion dollars that's going to the energy Department that's going to go into our National Laboratories and so forth. When we get this reconciliation legislation, I believe we will get it.
In the next week's and that is going to be the most massive, so that effort to bring together the forces we needed to try to achieve this. So I think something's happening. And and, and the way we're going to get where we need to go, is to work with Indonesia to their promises become real work with India. We have made a partnership with Prime Minister Modi.
Prime Minister Modi has committed even as he has a huge dependency on coal. Today. He wants to change the supply chain and solar panels. They're going to be making them in India. He is determined to deploy 450 gigawatts of renewable energy and that means solar and wind principally. And they put about a hundred and some out already. So we said and I said, what do you need? How will you get there? So we need Dance.
And we need technology. So we agreed in a partnership with the UAE and with Sweden to work at the hand-holding, necessary to bring the technology in the finance to the table. Now. What is the finance need to finance needs a bankable deal? That means D risking means Blended Finance. It means some concessionary money. We can do that. We have to rewrite I think some of the rules perhaps for the for the multi. Element, multilateral development bank's.
I mean, you know Bretton Woods is Bretton Woods, it was great for post-world War II, but we need something different now, in terms of financial instruments and efforts to accelerate the deployment of the trillions of dollars that are there. We had 17 trillion dollars sitting on the sidelines paying for the privilege of being parked in some fund or some bank or somewhere. That's insanity.
Negative never get Negative interest rate. When you could have been learning some percentage in a revenue producing environmentally sound deal, where you have Revenue, that comes from energy production or Revenue, that comes from transportation of one, kind or another. But this is old. This is from the private sector just to just to throw some well, the private sector. Let me tell you why, maybe he talked about, he wanted a trillion dollars.
From the rich countries, there was a planned but a hundred billion dollars in and as you well know America The Hope Was That America might book. 40% of that. I think you've committed Biden's committed putting 11 billion in 2012, 11 point, four billion. No 11-point billion for billion. A year from 2024. Well that yeah, that does the first budget cycle President Biden heads with the needs. It's too much smaller. Let me let me let's get real here.
That is the first budget cycle. The president has he is addressing climate and putting on point four billion in there. When you're the president and you're elected, the other president. Whoever that might be has put the budget in for you. You're stuck with whatever. Is there the next year's your first opportunity that was signed sealed and delivered? Well before cop so you're actually entering into 23, but leaving all that aside, the hundred billion is not the fight.
The UN the UN Finance report makes it crystal clear that to affect this transition to get to Net Zero by 2050. We need two point, six, two, four point six trillion a year in order to do that. Now, no government in the world. No government in the world, China. Not the United States were the two biggest economies.
Has the money necessary to do this. You're talking in billions billions doesn't do it. You got to have trillions. And so I decided when I left being Secretary of State. The only way we're going to win. This battle is to bring the private sector to the table. So I went out minute, I got appointed to this job and I worked with
Goldman Sachs with Morgan, Stanley Wells, Fargo City, JP Morgan Bank of America and they have all stood up and said and by the way, ESG is now in every boardroom in the world. People are thinking differently. We have a debate about stakeholder shareholder. You think that's very quickly. Do you think that's changed when I first met you? Hopefully it was government's pushing thing and companies with the problem. Correct? You now think companies are ahead of governments. Yes, totally. Ali.
And not only are companies ahead of government, but companies understand that their future is tied to having a stable Market Place, a viable Market Place having Supply chains that aren't interrupted by Cyclones and storms, and floods, and so forth. We spent two hundred sixty five billion dollars in the United States, a couple of years ago. Just cleaning up after three storms.
Are you kidding me? Maria Irma and Harvey, Harvey. Drop more water and the Louisiana, Texas area. Then goes over Niagara Falls in a whole year did that in five days. That's just three. That's one score Irma. Had the first sustained winds of a hundred 85 miles an hour for 24 hours. This is what's happening folks.
The warming of the ocean which comes from the coal and the acidification is, and the heat, the heat, 90% of the heat goes into the ocean, the warming of the ocean. Puts out more moisture. That's your intensity of Storms, and it's going to get worse. I mean, how much Alaska had something? I can't remember some two feet or something of rain, and a few hours the other day, I mean,
If you got to get real on this, this is trillions of dollars needed needed now. And we can win this fight. We cannot win without the private sector at the table. Just one can just push you one last time on this issue of the American government. I think, if you took all the people here, they would agree with you. That it's being driven now, more by companies and governments, but on the lot of people here, I think when Trump left,
They all appreciate what you have done particularly, but they still look at America. And think America is not the people signing up to do electric cars by 2035, America still. Someone who's leading Cole carry on just like the Chinese are at the no we're not actually especially they're not fat. You're not financing it outside but no no no, no, no. No, we're not. We're not we're not over 500 coal plants of shutting United States that last few years. That's true. Another another 58 are going to close this year. You're a guy named Bloomberg. Yes, he has. Been deeply involved in.
Closing these plants, he has been, he has been, he's been very good on that. I think even and and there will be. Hopefully my job is secure. But on.
On your job, you do hide it good guys, but you have this problem by didn't, you know, you're out here doing this stuff. Back at home, you talked about the Senate, the Senate is not passing things in the same way as you would hope, but it's not at these different measures. The great. Hope was, America would drive this thing. You are trying that the motor of the American government behind you is not pushing as hard.
Well, no, it's pushing very, very hard. Actually the president is
Sated on getting this legislation done. It is hard. It is hard right now. The United States Senate.
I was privileged to be in the Senate when it was somewhat the old Senate. And for anybody who wants to know what that was like, Robert Caro's book on, Lyndon Johnson. The master of the Senate is a brilliant first 300 Pages. It's a long book first. 300 Pages, very own book are so good in describing. If you want to understand the Senate that Senate departed beginning with the Gingrich revolution in 1994, and then we went through the tea party and the freedom caucus it. Etc. And notice that even Republicans
Speakers of the house disappeared during that sort of turmoil. So it became you know, very difficult place. I think there are a lot of people there who really want to make things work right now. And yes, there's this divide on the one piece of legislation, but, you know, I just have this confidence that you don't goes in cycles and it will come together. You don't think that the world is changing. You look at what happened here with the fuss about people spending money on heat. Oops, because your lesion in France, you look at the sort of
Just happen. Once normal people get confronted with the costs of adapting to climate change. And I suppose my question for you is so last question is, do you worry that this issue of climate change or adapting to climate change? Could be a bit like globalization where the elites? The economists politicians people are you and me, we all support the need to do this thing. But actually when you confront it with people, you say to people, this is going to be jobs lost here. It's going to be extra money on gas. It's Going to be pricing carbon that actually. When people hit that.
That they won't like it. And that's what you're beginning to see in the energy crisis, which has happened over the past few months. You seen China is pumping, you know, pumping it's going back to Cole because it needs to you see people calling on natural. Gas. Renewables aren't ready yet and people don't trust them. Do you worry that climate change is the new globalization and that way something that the elite support and normal people don't
Mother Nature is going to be relentless.
And she's more powerful than any of us. So what is going to happen is you're going to see millions of people moving from places. They can't live in anymore. And if you think the Syrian Exodus during the Syria War changed the politics of Europe. Wait'll you see
The complete agricultural capacity of Africa. Implode Wait.
Seawater not available places. I mean the Pakistani prime minister. Told me, they already have a diminishment in the amount of hydro. They can use because of the change in the, in the Himalayas Etc. Know, I think that the question is, can we manage? The potential.
Certain amount of chaos that will come if we don't do it and will it all get lost in that? That's why again, Glasgow, I think is so, so critical. This moment is so critical. The we are very tuned in President. Biden has major components of his legislation that are based on. He just,
Tissue and on environmental justice.
There has been built into many of the politics of the world.
The most massive and Equity that I've seen in my lifetime, we have
Working harder and harder and they don't get ahead and that's true in societies from the United States or Europe and other parts of the world and people who don't have those jobs. Don't really see how they're going to get ahead. And that's largely because we've had a really fraudulent, horrendously distorted tax system. And I used to be on the finance committee of the United States Senate. The books of the tax code would go from here.
Up to here, if you read through them, and almost every page in the are pretty personally carved out, corporate benefits, one kind or another individual ones and, and it just doesn't work. Right. Let's be honest about it. When you have finally we're addressing at G20 just said, we're going to have a minimum corporate tax on a global basis, and I'm not I'm a capitalist I believe in
In people's ability to invest in innovate and be entrepreneurial and go out and make money and make things. But there's a difference between capitalism and Robber, Baron capitalism, and in some places, that's what's been practiced. So you have this incredible. That's what fueled globalization. That's what's few the antipathy to it. That is what is fueled? This knee-jerk anger in many parts of the world where somebody like Donald Trump could win because people actually believed he was going to fight for them. M, the populist rhetoric.
And and that if we address that better and we've done better at that in different periods of Our Lives during the 1960's, 70s 80s. We had a more fair and less distorted system. I think we'll get back to it. I personally believe that we, you know, that can be redressed, but coming back to this to the just point out something like coal.
By 2030 in the United States. We won't have Coleman. We will not have coal plants by 2035. President. Biden has set a Target that we will be in our power sector carbon-free. We're the largest oil and gas producer in the world. But we're saying we're going to be carbon free in the power sector by 2035. I think that's leadership. I think that's indicative of what we can do. And by the way, building out a grid in the United States is jobs. It's jobs for engineers.
Heavy equipment, operators electricians, plumbers steelworkers. You run the list of it that we don't have a grid and we saw what happened in Texas. We have an East Coast grid West Coast grid. A little line goes across the Dakotas. And of course Texas has its own grid. So big hole in the center of the United States of America. We have our over roving around Mars. We have, we invent the internet. We invent vaccines. We can put a man on the moon. We can't send an electron in 2021.
From California to New York, that's insane. It's stupid. And, and and, you know, we need to be able. We, if we had a smart grid, we can use what's happening in daylight in California to excuse me. In New York to help California or to send energy to the Midwest or whatever. There's, so many things staring Us in the face that we can do. I think this is the most exciting transformation. Since the Industrial Revolution.
Lucien which, which I did not live through even though I might not like it. I just think we're onto something and I'm very, very yeah. I'm optimistic. I'm President. Obama said me yesterday, you know, John, I know you're an optimist, but but I am an optimist, but I'm an optimist based on what's possible. And remember what Nelson Mandela said. You said, it always looks impossible until it is done. We're getting it done. Done. And I think this next few days.
Pivotal in that. And if we are at one point, nine degrees 1.8, we still can get to where we have to go because the scientists didn't say you have to have it done by the end of cop. They said you have ten years and we now have nine years so we can go to China. We can work with Russia, Russia by the ways at the table with us. I went to Russia. We talked Putin ways, it he's got a challenge. He's got an extractive economy.
He's got the Siberian Tundra is burning. He's got infrastructure for that extraction. That is very much threatened by the permafrost, shifting and melting mean, those are real problems. How do you change that? How do you move rapidly enough to put in the Alternatives? You know, we're looking at fourth generation on that with Bill Gates. The other day, talked at length about what's happening with potential small modular reactors that are different, that aren't don't threaten meltdown. Have the potential for proliferation challenge. Don't.
The wasted problems and can be actually portable. You know, the United States Navy. I was in the Navy United States Navy. We had ships from the 19 late 1950s through the 60s. We've had ships that are nuclear. We've never lost a sailor. We've never had a spill, we've never had a meltdown at nothing. No accidents. So maybe the next generation is going to give us absolutely zero emissions controllable, better option. Here and I'm for all of the above.
Right now, I'm from making sure we continue with Fusion. We continue here. We're pouring our efforts into research across International lines and I am confident. Yes, that we can get there. Human beings created this problem. Human beings can solve it. That's a very good place to wrap up. John Kerry. Thank you very much.
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